should i juice?

[TampaTraps]

i have been working out for two and half years now(last year has been sparatic) no i know you will say that not a long time to be working out to juice, but i have to tell you i have awesome genetics, when i started working out i put 3" inches on my arm in 8 months(from 13.25 to 16.25) i went from 150-195 in the same time and no not alot of fat. right now i sit at 190 unknow fat but can see outline of abs. i was thinking wait till i bulk upto 200(been thier before) and then hit the sauce. what are the pros and cons and has anyone here done it.

cliffnotes:
5' 8" 190lbs
waiting till 200
great genetics
great diet
2 1/2 years training
should i juice.

[Dunecune442]

no. Bad for heart, liver, and hormone. Plus you have to take estrogen blocker.

Not worth it. You should be lifting for health, not size imo.

[Bumpin Expo]

why ruin your body/life if you already have great genetics? What supplements do you take if any?

[terry.ho]

no. Bad for heart, liver, and hormone. Plus you have to take estrogen blocker.

Not worth it. You should be lifting for health, not size imo.

:w/stupid:

If you have good genetics and eat heathly then you're better off than hitting the sauce in the long run. Just make your workouts consistent.

[TampaTraps]

well thats my problm i know if i juice i will blow up huge(my goal), and about the health thing i really thing i will still be healthy, i never smoked a day in my life, don't drink alcohol at all, no rec drugs, no pain meds to be hard on my liver, hell in my whole life i've only had two scripts for pain meds and they very no refills like 15pills each. so i don't really see how taking 500mg test a week for 10 weeks and a few d-bol a day for 4 weeks then gettting off for atleast that time will have any seriours side effects. i'm 24 so even if i do 2 cyles a year for 5 years that only 10 cylces, i mean is it really anyworse than if i had been smoking since 15, and went to a frat and drank 4-5 nights a week. is it really that unhealth.


i know my post sounds like have made up my mind, but i haven't i am just asking, and putting out counterpoints for discusion.

[Dunecune442]

do some research on it buddy. If you think you absolutely need it then go for it. But after 2.5 years, 190 pounds you are nowhere near your plateau. Your not huge to begin with and have more room to pack on NATURAL muscle. The only people that NEED roids are the pros who are at 250lb natural and need that extra kick. And if your genetics are so good your better off working naturaly till then. Lifting weights isnt supposed to be easy, it does take some time. Good luck, but I still say no roids. Your working out for health, not size.

[Strongest Man In The World]

Pro's: Increased lean mass, increased sex drive(like triple), you can add 20 lbs of lean mass in 2 months and keep up to 75% of it just from once cycle, No pain, awesome recovery time.

Cons. temporary shrunken testicles, increased acne, mood swings, people asking you "do you do steroids", ignorance towards the the A/AS world cause people to automatically assume things, you have to eat 3 times a much and workout twice as hard.

You know what I think man.

[moldyhands]

to me, steroids is no different than plastic surgery, just a tool for people that can't be happy with who they are.

[arsoniq26]

Try altering your workout first to hopefully shock your muscles and get out of your plateau. Roids should be your last option unless body building is your career.

[Capital G]

Sadly enough I'd give it a try, but no more then one or two cycles just to see the effects. Wanna take a trip to Mexico? I call not driving!

[99TL]

Doesn't make any sense to me... just doing it so you look better? At least with the baseball players I can understand it because they are doing it in a desperate attempt to get an edge which would lead to great monetary gains... Be happy with what you've got without using potentially harmful substances.

[moldyhands]

+1 to what 99TL said, plus the fact that 99% of girls like a guy with a muscular build that's not huge over a bodybuilding type. maybe you have a body obsession and need to see a shrink:lol:

[whitebread]

i say go for it if that is what you want. if it helps you reach your goals, you are willing to spend the time and the money to do it right, are ok with possible side effects, and think it is the best thing for you, then why not.

[Capital G]

Doesn't make any sense to me... just doing it so you look better? At least with the baseball players I can understand it because they are doing it in a desperate attempt to get an edge which would lead to great monetary gains... Be happy with what you've got without using potentially harmful substances.

To me working out is a 50/50 thing, half the reason I work out is to be healthy, the other 50 is to look better.

Just stating that since you started off by saying "Doesn't make any sense to me... just doing it so you look better? At least ....

[99TL]

To me working out is a 50/50 thing, half the reason I work out is to be healthy, the other 50 is to look better.

Just stating that since you started off by saying "Doesn't make any sense to me... just doing it so you look better? At least ....

To me there is a big difference between working out to look better and taking steroids to look better. Working out to look better makes complete sense to me... taking steroids to get big to look better doesn't make sense to me.

[Capital G]

To me there is a big difference between working out to look better and taking steroids to look better. Working out to look better makes complete sense to me... taking steroids to get big to look better doesn't make sense to me.

I agree with you, but at the same time some one else may feel looking better is just as important as playing better is to a ball player.

[Dunecune442]

i believe baseball players strive more for the 10+ million dollar a year contracts then too look sexy.

[japanbran]

if you want to do it... but before you do.. post before and after pictures

[Strongest Man In The World]

Doesn't make any sense to me... just doing it so you look better? At least with the baseball players I can understand it because they are doing it in a desperate attempt to get an edge which would lead to great monetary gains... Be happy with what you've got without using potentially harmful substances.

to some people, this is more than "looking good for the chicks." granted its a great benefit, Some people are addidted to getting big and will do everything in thier power to increase thier mass. Now contrary to the medias ""facts" AS arent that bad for you, used in a controled dosage and closely monitored. I know brandon is smart enough to know what hes gettin into, Maybe some other people should think outside the box and maybe do some research before thier 2 cents are thrown out there. BTW this isnt a personal attack on you, just quoted you b/c I wanted to reply to your post!

[JUG-LUDE]

I love steroids! Just like some people love smoking/drugs, drinking, sex.... Everything is bad for you, so do what makes you happy! That is all...

[TampaTraps]

to be honest i just posted this up to see what people views on roids are, i have done plenty of reaserch on this subject and know the risk/benefits. i am going to juice in the near future but not till i am around 205-210 remember i am only 5' 8" so thats pretty damn big already. and considering my clean lifestyle i still think i will be healtier than 90% of the pouplation even with a few cylces done.

[ChrisMonsod]

ive read if it was cycled right there would be no problem .. but thats a rumor

[...mikey]

I worked at Golds Gym for a few years and man, trust me, you can tell when someones on a cycle.

Not only do you become a cry baby with an attitude, your entire personality just changes. People on steroids act odd. They always have sarcastic senses of humor, essentially give you the feeling they have a chip on their shoulder.

3 months later they come in skinny, and cool as hell.

I'd do them, but I have moodswings as it is. Fuck steroid moodswings.

[japanbran]

to be honest i just posted this up to see what people views on roids are, i have done plenty of reaserch on this subject and know the risk/benefits. i am going to juice in the near future but not till i am around 205-210 remember i am only 5' 8" so thats pretty damn big already. and considering my clean lifestyle i still think i will be healtier than 90% of the pouplation even with a few cylces done.


when you do post before and after pics.. i would like to see the results.

im 6'5 245... if i was on juice.... i would be an oger.. lmao :lol:

[Strongest Man In The World]

I worked at Golds Gym for a few years and man, trust me, you can tell when someones on a cycle.

Not only do you become a cry baby with an attitude, your entire personality just changes. People on steroids act odd. They always have sarcastic senses of humor, essentially give you the feeling they have a chip on their shoulder.

3 months later they come in skinny, and cool as hell.

I'd do them, but I have moodswings as it is. Fuck steroid moodswings.
:: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Infinity. LOL LOL LOL LOL LOLerskates LOL LOL LOL

Im seriously laughing out loud here.. Funniest ignorant comment ive heard in a good year or 2

[TampaTraps]

skinny people with say anything to justify why they will never see results.

[Dunecune442]

and fat people will say anything to justify their stretch marks and bitch tits :dunce: :lol:

[TampaTraps]

and fat people will say anything to justify their stretch marks and bitch tits :dunce: :lol:


just bulking :lol:

[...mikey]

:: Infinity. LOL LOL LOL LOL LOLerskates LOL LOL LOL

Im seriously laughing out loud here.. Funniest ignorant comment ive heard in a good year or 2

How was my comment ignorant?

Steroids..hm. Testosterone?

Elevated levels of testosterone lead to anti-social and aggressive behavior. That's a fact. It doesn't happen to everyone, but too high of testosterone WILL make you aggressive. That doesn't mean you'll be out bar fighting, or killing people, it could mean anything, constant road rage, walking with a chip on your shoulder, etc.

Now if you think that was an ignorant statement, here;

http://www.abo.fi/fak/hf/psyk/lindman/abstracts.sht?testosterone

Testosterone levels were examined in prisoners convicted of violent crimes (N=13), in men previously convicted of violent crimes but currently not in prison (N=15), in nonviolent alcoholics (N=15), and in randomly selected control males (N=16). Morning, afternoon, and evening testosterone levels were assessed after a minimum alcohol abstinence period of 24 h. ;

Most violent men were diagnosed with Antisocial Personality Disorder [DSM-III-R; 301.70] and the unweighted ASP symptom count also correlated significantly with testosterone levels in these subjects. We suggest that individuals whose life histories involve numerous antisocial behaviors tend to have high testosterone levels even when interpersonal violence is excluded. This, however, does not eliminate the possibility that males who are characterized by high hostility may also have elevated testosterone.

Or here;

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=15795710&dopt=Abstract

In men, higher testosterone levels were obtained in perpetrators of violent crimes, in men from the army with antisocial behaviors, in subjects with impulsive behaviors, alcoholics and suicidals, in athletes using steroids, and during competitions. Aggressive and dominant behavior are distinguished. Testosterone influences both of these, even if man is usually inclined to affirm his power without causing physical damage. Testosterone receptors are mainly in some hypothalamic neurons, where it is aromatized into estrogens, which determine the increase in aggressiveness. A relation between testosterone levels and diencephalic serotonin has been shown: in fact, the lack of serotonin increases aggressive behaviors both in animals and man. Testosterone also increases ADH levels in the medial amygdala, lateral hypothalamus, and preoptical medial area, involved in aggressive behaviors.


If you cycle and KNOW you act exactly the same as without, then awesome, that's incredibly rare from what I've seen/read.

[POLLO]

I did it before, and once I drop about 20lbs naturally when I get started again, I'll do it again.

[Strongest Man In The World]

I love all the internet links and shit proving peoples theories. Why dont people ever give thier own testiment instead of going off what other people say?

[TampaTraps]

I love all the internet links and shit proving peoples theories. Why dont people ever give thier own testiment instead of going off what other people say?


because dood, jose came out with a book didn't you read it all the guys cheated on thier wifes, had mood swings, and hit the ball futher, thats all i need to know.

[JUG-LUDE]

I worked at Golds Gym for a few years and man, trust me, you can tell when someones on a cycle.

Not only do you become a cry baby with an attitude, your entire personality just changes. People on steroids act odd. They always have sarcastic senses of humor, essentially give you the feeling they have a chip on their shoulder.

3 months later they come in skinny, and cool as hell.

I'd do them, but I have moodswings as it is. Fuck steroid moodswings.

Your an idiot man...

[Dunecune442]

Ill agree, that has more with the ego that comes with extreme size, not steroids. Roids will alter your mood alittle because it plays with your hormones, but your not going to be slamming shit and fighting random people if you already dont.

I lift for health however, I try not doing anything detrimental to my LONG TERM health. Ill have a drink here and their and smoke a hookah at some arabian shin dig but thats it.

Anyhow I wish you the best of luck should you do it. Just make sure its pure and not some whipped up at home shit.

If you get "bodybuilding bible" by Arnold he has atleast a chapter dedicated to it.

[arsoniq26]

I think a lot of people BLAME their attitudes/mood swings on steroids. And also, I think crxsi is right, if you cycle correctly there shouldnt be a problem. I'm sure a lot of people over use steroids and those are the people whose hormones are affected seriously.

EDIT: But I still wouldn't use them unless you needed them.

[...mikey]

Your an idiot man...

That was just my experience with a few hundred people on cycles, if yours differs, than thats awesome. :)

I never said you become Skeletor on steroids and are looking to kill He-Man, I said it can (aka, has the possibility) of making you a more aggressive person.

Anyhow, be careful.

[Strongest Man In The World]

now that is an educated statement.

With an elevated testosterone level, all its going to do is exagerate what you already have. If your prone to acne, youll get bad acne, if balding is in your genes, youll bald quicker, if your a hot head, you will be that much quicker to snap on someone. etc... It doesnt create a monster, it just enhightens what is already there. Including muscle mass

[Country Boy]

if your a hot head, you will be that much quicker to snap on someone. etc... It doesnt create a monster,

I would be a fucking psyco on it then. ;)

Doesnt it damage or very hard on your liver or something? Ive read that from people using it before.

[TampaTraps]

I would be a fucking psyco on it then. ;)

Doesnt it damage or very hard on your liver or something? Ive read that from people using it before.


orals(d-bol, anadrol, etc) are super hard on the liver, injectables aren't so bad, it can't be any worse than binge drinking, or taking pain meds, or other rec drugs.

[civichx1998]

i think we need a TF Gunniea Pig.

[JUG-LUDE]

I'll post up some before after pics in a few months... Im 5'8 172 right now with low b/f.. I start my cycle in September, this will be my 3rd cycle! I plan to get around 200lbs with fairly low b/f. I will share my knowledge and experience to anyone who really cares!

[terry.ho]

I'll post up some before after pics in a few months... Im 5'8 172 right now with low b/f.. I start my cycle in September, this will be my 3rd cycle! I plan to get around 200lbs with fairly low b/f. I will share my knowledge and experience to anyone who really cares!

I would be interested to see. I'm only opposed to steriod use from when I was training mixed martial arts. Guys that came into our facility that were juicing were the easiest to beat. The roids had there muscles swollen and they burned to much energy. Once the fight was taken to the ground any one of the natural guys could last 20 or 30 minutes easy and a someone on roids could maybe go 10 minutes.

[Lumberjack]

fuck it im gonna start my first cycle when i get back from minnesota im actually excited. im 235 pounds and pretty solid(axcept for the beer belly), benching over 340 and squating over 440. a cant wait to c what i look like after just one cycle!

[MitchMitchem]

If you do not do a cycle properly, not only can you lose any gains you've gotten, but it can also be much worse.

If you are going to cycle, first go get blood work done. That is one of the most important things to do. Also, be sure to do tons of research on what you're taking. Once you get your blood results back, you should be able to come up with a cycle that will be perfect for your body (because you've been doing lots of research). Also, PCT is another very important aspect that some people over look.

If you don't know what I'm talking about, DO NOT DO A CYCLE.

[4dorteg]

if you juice do not do it before you have stopped growing. if you are a fully grown adult male and you use proper cycling and do not abuse it will not affect you in a negative way. Bob Costas or Bryant Gumble just did a show on this because of the uprising of phone calls and emails they received after all the baseball crap. There were 2 guys they spoke with one in his 40's and the other in his 70's both started in their 20's. Both cycle they why they should get blood test done every 6 mon and have never had a problem. There was also a doctor on there that said it is true because they are already healthy fully grown adult males. Doctor said it was bad for women, unhealthy males and healthy males that have not stopped growing. By growing I am talking bone structure.

[TampaTraps]

if you juice do not do it before you have stopped growing. if you are a fully grown adult male and you use proper cycling and do not abuse it will not affect you in a negative way. Bob Costas or Bryant Gumble just did a show on this because of the uprising of phone calls and emails they received after all the baseball crap. There were 2 guys they spoke with one in his 40's and the other in his 70's both started in their 20's. Both cycle they why they should get blood test done every 6 mon and have never had a problem. There was also a doctor on there that said it is true because they are already healthy fully grown adult males. Doctor said it was bad for women, unhealthy males and healthy males that have not stopped growing. By growing I am talking bone structure.


yeah the 40 year old they talk to was john romano he rights for a bodybuilding magizine(musclar development) and he has been juicing for a number of years, so if done properly it is ok. i think it's funny i am justifing setroids in moderation, but if i where to drink every night and smoke sigs nobody would pass judgement. things that make you go humm

[Raider926]

yeah the 40 year old they talk to was john romano he rights for a bodybuilding magizine(musclar development) and he has been juicing for a number of years, so if done properly it is ok. i think it's funny i am justifing setroids in moderation, but if i where to drink every night and smoke sigs nobody would pass judgement. things that make you go humm

I think if you have to ask if you should take them or not you don't know enough about them. Start reading as much as you can and make your up your own mind.

My opinion, read on post cycles on how to eat and train while your on it and read on how be as safe as possible. Once you are to the point where you really don't have anymore serious questions. you know the pros and cons inside out, then go for it.

[Raider926]

If you do not do a cycle properly, not only can you lose any gains you've gotten, but it can also be much worse.

If you are going to cycle, first go get blood work done. That is one of the most important things to do. Also, be sure to do tons of research on what you're taking. Once you get your blood results back, you should be able to come up with a cycle that will be perfect for your body (because you've been doing lots of research). Also, PCT is another very important aspect that some people over look.

If you don't know what I'm talking about, DO NOT DO A CYCLE.

I missed your post, but you hit it right on the head.

[Strongest Man In The World]

Raider, If theres anyone whos knowledgeable about this subject on this board, its brandon.

he just wanted to see how uneducated most people here are.

[Shizzle]

i have been working out for two and half years now(last year has been sparatic) no i know you will say that not a long time to be working out to juice, but i have to tell you i have awesome genetics, when i started working out i put 3" inches on my arm in 8 months(from 13.25 to 16.25) i went from 150-195 in the same time and no not alot of fat. right now i sit at 190 unknow fat but can see outline of abs. i was thinking wait till i bulk upto 200(been thier before) and then hit the sauce. what are the pros and cons and has anyone here done it.

cliffnotes:
5' 8" 190lbs
waiting till 200
great genetics
great diet
2 1/2 years training
should i juice.

(I didnt read all the replies...)

How old are you?

You should probably do a little research before you "juice". There are plenty of 'legal' pro hormones that will either:

A) provide the gains you are looking for
B) Kill you
C) Make you feel like you wasted your money

Plan to spend a load of money on food, not including your 'gear'.

You should prepare your body for the cycle...pre cycle supps $150
You'll probably go for a 6 week cycle...about $300 bucks
If you dont want to get bloated and grow titties, you'll need a fairly good PCT (post cycle therapy) $150-300 bucks.

Not to mention, you run the risk of damaging your liver and completely shutting down your natural testosterone production if you dont do everything properly.

You should also see a doctor for a exam...steroids can also increase your cholesterol.

If, after considering all this, you still want to 'juice', let me know. I'll help you plan a legal stack that should get you where you want to be at the least.

[JUG-LUDE]

(I didnt read all the replies...)

How old are you?

You should probably do a little research before you "juice". There are plenty of 'legal' pro hormones that will either:

A) provide the gains you are looking for
B) Kill you
C) Make you feel like you wasted your money

Plan to spend a load of money on food, not including your 'gear'.

You should prepare your body for the cycle...pre cycle supps $150
You'll probably go for a 6 week cycle...about $300 bucks
If you dont want to get bloated and grow titties, you'll need a fairly good PCT (post cycle therapy) $150-300 bucks.

Not to mention, you run the risk of damaging your liver and completely shutting down your natural testosterone production if you dont do everything properly.

You should also see a doctor for a exam...steroids can also increase your cholesterol.

If, after considering all this, you still want to 'juice', let me know. I'll help you plan a legal stack that should get you where you want to be at the least.

Wow it's awesome to see someone on here that actually know's what they're talking about! AND YES GO GET YOUR BLOOD WORK DONE FIRST! I actually learned alot of what I know from my family doctor.... Be honest with them and they will be honest with you! It's better to ask questions rather then hurt yourself.....

[Shizzle]

Wow it's awesome to see someone on here that actually know's what they're talking about! AND YES GO GET YOUR BLOOD WORK DONE FIRST! I actually learned alot of what I know from my family doctor.... Be honest with them and they will be honest with you! It's better to ask questions rather then hurt yourself.....

True indeed. What kind of cycle are you planning on doing?

[JUG-LUDE]

test, deca, fina.... Im just trying to figure out what doses I want to run! My doctors appt is next week. ;) It's gonna be a 12 week cycle, it's probably gonna look something like this.

Test- week 1-12 eod
deca- week 4-12 monday/thursday
fina- week 4-8 monday/thursday
Then i'll be starting my pct 2 weeks before my last shot. Which will just be clomid and maybe some other otc things.

This isn't final yet, but it will look something like that.

[Shizzle]

test, deca, fina.... Im just trying to figure out what doses I want to run! My doctors appt is next week. ;) It's gonna be a 12 week cycle, it's probably gonna look something like this.

Test- week 1-12 eod
deca- week 4-12 monday/thursday
fina- week 4-8 monday/thursday
Then i'll be starting my pct 2 weeks before my last shot. Which will just be clomid and maybe some other otc things.

This isn't final yet, but it will look something like that.

I'm sure you know this..but make sure you plan it out and get everything on hand...BEFORE you start.

What are you taking for liver protection?

[raveman7]

test, deca, fina.... Im just trying to figure out what doses I want to run! My doctors appt is next week. ;) It's gonna be a 12 week cycle, it's probably gonna look something like this.

Test- week 1-12 eod
deca- week 4-12 monday/thursday
fina- week 4-8 monday/thursday
Then i'll be starting my pct 2 weeks before my last shot. Which will just be clomid and maybe some other otc things.

This isn't final yet, but it will look something like that.

What kind of ester of test are you running.. I see you are saying you are going to run test eod so im assuming you are going to run Prop. If so im not sure why you would run deca in there since deca is more for bulking, i would suggest running EQ over deca, just my opinion, b/c its worked well for me in the past w/ cutting cycles. I also see you are running Fina weeks 4-8, mon and thurs, if you are running Tren Acct then you will need to use it 75mg /ed instead of Mon and Thurs just to take advantage of the short esters in the fina.

This is what i would suggest if you are looking to cut.
Wk 1-12
Test Prop 100mg /ed
Tren Acct 75mg /ed
EQ 500mg / mon, thurs

Start PCT 3 days AFTER your last shot.. do NOT begin PCT (clomid or nolva) 2 weeks before you end your cycle.. Unless you are planning on running HCG, then you will want to run that 500iu's for 14 days after your last shot of test, THEN begin PCT w/ clomid or nolva..

However, if this is your first cycle I would not recommend going with prop and fina. Only b/c you have to shoot every day to take advantage of the short acting esters in the test and fina.. This is something i would recommend to someone who has 2 or 3 cycles under their belt..

but then again if you are going to bulk.. I would say

wk 1-12
Test Cypionate or Enthenate 500mg / mon, thurs
Deca 400mg / mon, thurs

start pct 2 weeks after last shot of test.

leave out the fina from your bulking cycle since it will due to alot better good when you run a cutting cycle..

just my .2 cents....

[raveman7]

(I didnt read all the replies...)

Plan to spend a load of money on food, not including your 'gear'.

You should prepare your body for the cycle...pre cycle supps $150
You'll probably go for a 6 week cycle...about $300 bucks
If you dont want to get bloated and grow titties, you'll need a fairly good PCT (post cycle therapy) $150-300 bucks.
.


Those prices are WAY too high.. Proper PCT such as clomid should cost you no more than $90 dependning on how many tabs you get.

[240racer]

I'd start with some good supplements first... NOXplode, maybe a natural test enhancer like Tribex...

It's this quick-fix, "i'm indestructible" attitude that gets people killed, and supplements banned. For every Jay Cutler or Ray Coleman, there's dozens of guys who have WRECKED their bodies trying to get there.

The endocrine sytem is EXTREMELY sensitive, and balance within this system is CRUCIAL. SInce you already have made ecceptional gains naturally, this is a sign that your system is in a great balance. Juicing will obiously throw a monkey wrench in the works, and in reality it's playing russian roulette with your future health for some quick TEMPORARY gains...

Your call.

[Strongest Man In The World]

I'd start with some good supplements first... NOXplode, maybe a natural test enhancer like Tribex...

It's this quick-fix, "i'm indestructible" attitude that gets people killed, and supplements banned. For every Jay Cutler or Ray Coleman, there's dozens of guys who have WRECKED their bodies trying to get there.

The endocrine sytem is EXTREMELY sensitive, and balance within this system is CRUCIAL. SInce you already have made ecceptional gains naturally, this is a sign that your system is in a great balance. Juicing will obiously throw a monkey wrench in the works, and in reality it's playing russian roulette with your future health for some quick TEMPORARY gains...

Your call.I have a feeling the only research youve done on A/AS is watching the news and reading the paper.

[raveman7]

I'd start with some good supplements first... NOXplode, maybe a natural test enhancer like Tribex...

It's this quick-fix, "i'm indestructible" attitude that gets people killed, and supplements banned. For every Jay Cutler or Ray Coleman, there's dozens of guys who have WRECKED their bodies trying to get there.

The endocrine sytem is EXTREMELY sensitive, and balance within this system is CRUCIAL. SInce you already have made ecceptional gains naturally, this is a sign that your system is in a great balance. Juicing will obiously throw a monkey wrench in the works, and in reality it's playing russian roulette with your future health for some quick TEMPORARY gains...

Your call.

i see your point bro.. but your way off target..

[racingtheburg]

Remember using a steriod doesnt work for everyone ....I used Deca And saw nearly nothing for a gain or a shred. Some of it works you just have to try many things to see what your body will best work with. Of course with the lowest side effects, I just couldnt stand the needle any more just got really old and wasnt woth it to me none the less gains were not there.

I have also used clenbuterol worked very well for about 4 weeks lost over 20 lbs and clean up a little but I started to have realy bad acid reflux.So I stopped using that, As for now I am trying the new RIPPED PACK by GNC works very well so far easy to use and not to much for a stack.So far so good as well.

[raveman7]

^^ true that not everyone responds the same way to an anabolic, however i think in your case either the deca was under dosed or you might not have cycled it correctly or your diet was not in check.. not flaming you at all, i just know that deca is an automatic mass builder when cycled with a testosterone. but your testosterone receptors might not have bonded well with the deca or you got some bunk stuff...

clen is also great, ive used it in the past.. i just couldnt stand the freakish headaches that lasted for 4 hours at a time while on it..

[Strongest Man In The World]

Deca depends on protien. if you dont get enough, it wont work. Plus, when running it without a test, the side effect are unpleasurable (aka deca dick)

[Bumpin Expo]

just dont see why people will risk it. Creatine and protein is enough. Hell maybe even some NO2

[raveman7]

just dont see why people will risk it. Creatine and protein is enough. Hell maybe even some NO2


NO2 is a waste.. Just get some l-arginine, take 500mg per day and its just as good for 1/2 the price.

[Shizzle]

Remember using a steriod doesnt work for everyone ....I used Deca And saw nearly nothing for a gain or a shred. Some of it works you just have to try many things to see what your body will best work with. Of course with the lowest side effects, I just couldnt stand the needle any more just got really old and wasnt woth it to me none the less gains were not there.

I have also used clenbuterol worked very well for about 4 weeks lost over 20 lbs and clean up a little but I started to have realy bad acid reflux.So I stopped using that, As for now I am trying the new RIPPED PACK by GNC works very well so far easy to use and not to much for a stack.So far so good as well.

Your gains depends on your diet. How much did you eat while you were on cycle?

[Shizzle]

Those prices are WAY too high.. Proper PCT such as clomid should cost you no more than $90 dependning on how many tabs you get.

Yeah..i'm factoring in all the other stuff..cholesterol aids, liver aids, etc. Also, I give the high side because everybody doesnt know where to find the cheap stuff.. (some still shop at GNC)

[Strongest Man In The World]

nolvadex and clomid== around 90-100 bucks for 6 week supply

[Shizzle]

nolvadex and clomid== around 90-100 bucks for 6 week supply

Thats what I've been seeing.

ReboundXT is way more expensive..when i'm ready Ill probably go with Nolva and Clomid..

Thanks.

[racingtheburg]

I was eating about 1.5 grams a protien per Pound of body weight ,..... I gained maybe 3 lbs but nothing crazy as I wanted I trained 4-5 days a week very hard .. No side effects so far clo and clen help you from that deca dick...

The GNC stuff i just picked up is really surprising me as for right now.. As for 3 days and counting I have already seen MINOR changes more vascular and also staring to cut and loose some water weight.

I have taken many many items in the 4 years I have been doing this ....Like stated everyones body is different you have to try things to see if they work...

As of my testosterone receptors you probbly are right....My friend did the same cycle I went through and gained 13-15 lbs of muscle....

Up date us if you try a cycle of what not and wondering how it worked for you.

[Shizzle]

I was eating about 1.5 grams a protien per Pound of body weight ,..... I gained maybe 3 lbs but nothing crazy as I wanted I trained 4-5 days a week very hard .. No side effects so far clo and clen help you from that deca dick...

The GNC stuff i just picked up is really surprising me as for right now.. As for 3 days and counting I have already seen MINOR changes more vascular and also staring to cut and loose some water weight.

I have taken many many items in the 4 years I have been doing this ....Like stated everyones body is different you have to try things to see if they work...

As of my testosterone receptors you probbly are right....My friend did the same cycle I went through and gained 13-15 lbs of muscle....

Up date us if you try a cycle of what not and wondering how it worked for you.

How many calories were you taking in..

Protein alone is not going to provide the results that you're looking for from PH or AS.

Depending on what your maintenance calorie level is, you should bump it up least 1500 calories when on cycle and bulking.

[raveman7]

update us if you try a cycle of what not and wondering how it worked for you.

not sure if you are pointing this question to me or someone else?

but to answer your question, you will grow with any blend of Test.. period..

[raveman7]

nolvadex and clomid== around 90-100 bucks for 6 week supply

proper PCT should be run for 30 days.. not 6 weeks bro..

[Strongest Man In The World]

I understand that. but the dosage i was refering to was 60 ml bottles.

I know your the long time expert bro, but im not a newbie myself :)

[racingtheburg]

I was almost at 3000 cal's

[Strongest Man In The World]

not even close to enough man. :)