Clean Bulking

[arsoniq26]

OK, I decided to start bulking and I want to do it clean. I'm sure a lot of you guys can tell me what to look for when reading the labels on foods so tell me if I am doing this right. I look at Calories, Protein, and Carbs (esp. before workouts), and Fat (but I stay away from saturated fat. I have a fast metabolism and weigh 150 now. I was thinking 200+ grams of protein a day, and maybe 5000-6000 calories. How does that sound? What should be my fat intake as well? Carbs? I wanna gain alittle weight, but don't wanna eat 3 double cheeseburgers a day, if I can stick to a healthy diet I'd be happy.

[TampaTraps]

up that rptoein intake if you do take in 5-6k cals, that mean at 200grams protein only 800cals ae comming from protein, thats leae 4200 to come from fat and carbs, that would look something like 600carbs=2400cals, and 200grams fat= 1800, i can't see that be to clean. i would shot for 4k cals with about 350 protein, 350carbs, 100grams fat

[arsoniq26]

ok, thanx a lot I'll keep that in mind.

anymore advice anybody?

[Strongest Man In The World]

id say 1lb of ground beef, 1/2 gallon of milk and a half package of oreos per day mixed in with other foods will put on 10 lbs in a month, guaranteed.

btw im dead serious

[Shizzle]

Arsoniq,

I forget..how tall are you? Also, if you can find out yoru body fat percentage.

Your bulking intake should be based on your body type...you should probably ramp up your cals gradually.

[arsoniq26]

5'8" and how can i find out my bf% besides skin calipers and all that.

[Vito_Corleone]

You don't. Use the skin caliper.

[arsoniq26]

where can i get one

[Dunecune442]

Either buy one or go to the doctor and get a check up (like $20 at a walk-in clinic).

I would buy my own, just google a pair, they are all the same. Atleast with that you can check your bf% as many times as you want.

Donnie made a good suggestion but take in ALOT of nutrients because thats mainly a protein and fat diet. Youll get alot of protein and iron, but little else. Take in multi-vitamins, eat 1-2 sweet potatos daily, yams, leafy greens like spinach and romaine lettuce, beets etc. Your going to have to eat some vegetables.

With carbs stick to whole grain and complex carbs. Simple carbs like white bread are a no-no. Whole wheat, pumpernickle and rye are great choices.

Workouts will have to be modified. Stay away from high reps, low/medium weight. Try doing some low reps/high weight and use about 75% barbell in your workout. Dumbells should not be neglected, rather limited.

Good luck and still drink ALOT of water. Your intake should be higher than now to limit the chance of getting a kidney stone(s).

Oh, btw, NO OREOS :-P

[Strongest Man In The World]

For once i wish people would take me serious when i say this shit. Everything i say is proven. Before someone says something about me being fat, it wasnt me who did that oreo thing. My buddy who is 6'2" was stuck @ 185 forever, eating "clean food". Strarted drinking a shit load of milk and eating a half packages of double stuffs every night(along with the good foods) for a couple weeks. He put on 10 lbs in that month and now hes at 215-220 with less that 12-13% (which is damn good for bulking)

God damnit, i know this shit.

[czech09]

Weight Gainer?

[Country Boy]

For once i wish people would take me serious when i say this shit. Everything i say is proven. Before someone says something about me being fat, it wasnt me who did that oreo thing. My buddy who is 6'2" was stuck @ 185 forever, eating "clean food". Strarted drinking a shit load of milk and eating a half packages of double stuffs every night(along with the good foods) for a couple weeks. He put on 10 lbs in that month and now hes at 215-220 with less that 12-13% (which is damn good for bulking)

God damnit, i know this shit.


Thats because look around. Notice how many fat people there are in the US? They got there from those Oreos, cheezeburgers, fast food, etc. Noone wants to eat that stuff and try to lead the healthy lifestyle. Its a guilt trip thing. I know if I was eating some Oreos, I would feel a bit guilty about it. People want to grow size cleanly so they dont have to look through the fat. Also, it makes the cutting cycle that much easier. :)

[TampaTraps]

For once i wish people would take me serious when i say this shit. Everything i say is proven. Before someone says something about me being fat, it wasnt me who did that oreo thing. My buddy who is 6'2" was stuck @ 185 forever, eating "clean food". Strarted drinking a shit load of milk and eating a half packages of double stuffs every night(along with the good foods) for a couple weeks. He put on 10 lbs in that month and now hes at 215-220 with less that 12-13% (which is damn good for bulking)

God damnit, i know this shit.


i wonder where said freind got this idea. lol

[TampaTraps]

Thats because look around. Notice how many fat people there are in the US? They got there from those Oreos, cheezeburgers, fast food, etc. Noone wants to eat that stuff and try to lead the healthy lifestyle. Its a guilt trip thing. I know if I was eating some Oreos, I would feel a bit guilty about it. People want to grow size cleanly so they dont have to look through the fat. Also, it makes the cutting cycle that much easier. :)


you have it wrong you don't replace healhty clean food with oreo cookies and ho-ho's you add those in sparingly, so you eat you 4 clean meals and 2 protein shakes, but ontop of that you add a nice little treat ie oreo, little debbies snack cakes. and why feel guilty about a few cokkies if you eat clean the rest of the day and hit the gym hard, reward yourself

[Strongest Man In The World]

why does everbody worry about the cutting cycle. That is the easiest part of bodybuilding.

[Dunecune442]

Donnie I mentioned its impossible to do a completely clean bulk cycle. I posted the no oreo thing b/c I knew youd see it LOL.

Donnie and Traps are right, your going to have to splurge every now and then. If you dont mix it up with your metabolism results will slow down whether your cutting or bulking.

Im in the cutting phase and now and then Ill have two or three mini-snickers and a few pieces of starburst or something, like two or three times a week. You will have to splurge.

There is no such thing as a 100% clean bulk. To eat 4-5k calories daily clean would require about 15-20 dollars daily, and thats if you make everything on your own. Few people take 1lb of beef, a chunk of cheese and salad to eat 6 times a day. Plus youll get so many kidney stones its sick lol.

Look, if im agreeing with donnie something has to be right here, am I correct Donnie? To have someone in the cutting phase agree with a bulker? Pretty rare!

[Shizzle]

:dunno: Dune,

I know you mean well, and I'm not bashing you at all, but you're flip flopping...first you said no Oreos, now you're saying treat yourself.

You said you were 17 or 18 right? Your body isnt even done developing yet, but you're still tried to give advice (flawed at that) to everyone on the board. You cant even do a cycle without screwing your body up beyond repair.

I've been lifting for years and I'm Exhaust and some of the others have been too. I've tried all kinds of shit and I know what works and what doesnt. I'm not an expert by anymeans, nor do I claim to be. But I dont give out advice that's incorrect either.

You should probably sit back and soak in alot of this and research a little more. I'm not saying that you dont know your shit, but you dont know as much as you think you do (typical teenager).


Workouts will have to be modified. Stay away from high reps, low/medium weight. Try doing some low reps/high weight and use about 75% barbell in your workout. Dumbells should not be neglected, rather limited.


Did you know that dumbells allow a greater range of motion than barbells? In general, you can overload the weight to allow for maximum growth. If you're not already doing so, maybe you should incorporate them in your workout :D

-----------------------

Before any advice is given on a diet, Arsoniq needs to know what his bf% is.

If he's got 20% body fat, would you send him a bulk diet with 5000 cals a day? On the other hand, if he's at like 12%, then he should be ok.

[Vito_Corleone]

Before any advice is given on a diet, Arsoniq needs to know what his bf% is.


Honestly the best thing said so far. Knowing his goals would be nice also.

Let's figure out all the information before advising OR jumping at each other's testes.

:)

[Strongest Man In The World]

agreed

and i shouldnt have said anything b/c he wants a clean bulk. I'm not the man for advice on that.

[arsoniq26]

Haha OK, lemme add more info. i do eat a very balanced diet... I DO count my protein, cals, fat, and carbs, but I also intake plenty of veggies and fruits as well. Plus I take a daily Vitamin (Mega Mens from GNC). I currently weigh about 155, am 5'8". I am benching 205 (not that it matters) but you wouldnt be able to tell by looking at me. I just want to gain some size without gaining a huge gut, I just want to make sure I am getting al lthe right nutrients to my muscles. I will update with bf% this weekend. As for the Oreos, I do sparingly eat junk food... just not half a box of oreos and day and I dont see that happening. There are other things to take into consideration for me besides "getting bIg"... Cholestorel, too much sugar, starch, sodium... I wanna bulk healthy, not give myself a heart attack at age 25. No offense to your methods. But like I said I want to bulk clean and helathy if I am going to bulk at all.

[Vito_Corleone]

agreed

and i shouldnt have said anything b/c he wants a clean bulk. I'm not the man for advice on that.

Honestly, from what you've told me, your bulk doesn't seem to be THAT bad. I mean i'm all for clean bulks, but as is completely obvious, that shit is hard to keep clean while maintaining enough calories AND expensive.

[Shizzle]

Let's figure out all the information before advising OR jumping at each other's testes.

:)

I jump on tittays...not testes :-D

[Dunecune442]

:dunno: Dune,

I know you mean well, and I'm not bashing you at all, but you're flip flopping...first you said no Oreos, now you're saying treat yourself.

You said you were 17 or 18 right? Your body isnt even done developing yet, but you're still tried to give advice (flawed at that) to everyone on the board. You cant even do a cycle without screwing your body up beyond repair.

I've been lifting for years and I'm Exhaust and some of the others have been too. I've tried all kinds of shit and I know what works and what doesnt. I'm not an expert by anymeans, nor do I claim to be. But I dont give out advice that's incorrect either.

You should probably sit back and soak in alot of this and research a little more. I'm not saying that you dont know your shit, but you dont know as much as you think you do (typical teenager).



Did you know that dumbells allow a greater range of motion than barbells? In general, you can overload the weight to allow for maximum growth. If you're not already doing so, maybe you should incorporate them in your workout :D

-----------------------

Before any advice is given on a diet, Arsoniq needs to know what his bf% is.

If he's got 20% body fat, would you send him a bulk diet with 5000 cals a day? On the other hand, if he's at like 12%, then he should be ok.

No offense taken, I can withstand criticism :)

I turned 18 on August 16th, so yes Im young. If you see me however I do not have that body. I know im developing and I understand the differences between dumbell and barbell.

Please point me to the thread where I claim to be an expert? Ive never said anything to that effect. Every post Ive had in here has been almost a debate, and I think that is best considering that every body is different, no one will react the same to a workout. By having a group of people "duke it out" seems the best way to get a general consensus.

Donnie and some of the bulkers have agreed that barbell is a great mass building technique, Ill even search the threads to point them out. This guy wants mass, barbells are perfect for that. Dumbells offer a great range of motion, but it will take longer to gain any mass. I do most of my exercises with dumbells myself because I dont like the feel of barbell, rotator cuffs dont feel too good with it.

Seriously stop with the teenager bullshit, Im fed up with that. You wouldnt have said a damn thing too my posts had I put my birthdate as 83 or 82. I dont claim to know everything, and Ive used a few techniques from this board (even more from that video that was posted). I post what works for ME, Ive shaped my workout over the past two years and post what I think has helped my muscle growth the most. Just as YOU have done and the rest of the members on this board.

If you dont mind, what exactly was so flawed about any of my posts? Ill offer a multitude of bodybuilding forums, magazine articles and scientific studies to support them. Im not posting crap tips or exercises, and think my exercise is very balanced.

Thanks for pointing my "Inconsistancy out", if you havent noticed me and Donnie poke fun of each others techniques quite a bit, and I just wanted to have a little fun with him. Jesus christ cant you guys take an semi-inside joke :tard:

BTW what cycle were you referring too? A cutting cycle, bulking or steroid? Ive never heard of anyone getting sick from eating smaller leaner meals and extra cardio. Im not doing a hardcore cutting phase like cutting carbs and modifying sodium intake, Im just doing a hell of a lot more cardio exercises. Not many people fall down dead or get physically ill off that.

EDIT : My spelling sucks.

[Dunecune442]

Haha OK, lemme add more info. i do eat a very balanced diet... I DO count my protein, cals, fat, and carbs, but I also intake plenty of veggies and fruits as well. Plus I take a daily Vitamin (Mega Mens from GNC). I currently weigh about 155, am 5'8". I am benching 205 (not that it matters) but you wouldnt be able to tell by looking at me. I just want to gain some size without gaining a huge gut, I just want to make sure I am getting al lthe right nutrients to my muscles. I will update with bf% this weekend. As for the Oreos, I do sparingly eat junk food... just not half a box of oreos and day and I dont see that happening. There are other things to take into consideration for me besides "getting bIg"... Cholestorel, too much sugar, starch, sodium... I wanna bulk healthy, not give myself a heart attack at age 25. No offense to your methods. But like I said I want to bulk clean and helathy if I am going to bulk at all.

nothing wrong with donnie bulk. Donnie is going for all out mass, whether you want to do that or not its up to you. Hes going to burn it off when he gets to a certain point. Its a common technique used by pros. Some people dont like cutting phases (I dont look forward to cardio very much, very boring). If you would rather do something alittle bit more progressive and arent hardpressed to meet your weight goal for next years BB competition then just do a slow, progressive bulk. Eat around 200 grams protein daily if possible and increase your caloric intake 500 daily. Modify this monthly depending on results and what you want. Never stick to the same routine because your going to change depending on level of activity and metabolic fluctuations. You are going to have to eat some "junk" meals, not cheap or easy to bulk 100% clean. Post your bf% so I can get some of these posters off my balls. Your going to have to find what works for you, and thats going to take time to find out.

[Shizzle]

“No offense taken, I can withstand criticism



I turned 18 on August 16th, so yes Im young. If you see me however I do not have that body. I know im developing and I understand the differences between dumbell and barbell.”



Happy belated birthday. I too was ahead in muscular development compared to others my age.



“Please point me to the thread where I claim to be an expert? Ive never said anything to that effect. Every post Ive had in here has been almost a debate, and I think that is best considering that every body is different, no one will react the same to a workout. By having a group of people "duke it out" seems the best way to get a general consensus.”



I never said you were an expert. Some things are debatable..I understand that. However there are some thing that said that are incorrect or just really bad assumptions. Most advice that I hear people give is based on something that they read some where, rather than actually trying it out. That's where I get irritated.



“Donnie and some of the bulkers have agreed that barbell is a great mass building technique, Ill even search the threads to point them out. This guy wants mass, barbells are perfect for that. Dumbells offer a great range of motion, but it will take longer to gain any mass. I do most of my exercises with dumbells myself because I dont like the feel of barbell, rotator cuffs dont feel too good with it.”



Understood. From what I've seen and experienced, the workout should consist of both. 25% of dumbell is not enough IMO. Plus if you can overload the muscle with the db weight, you can build mass even faster...but if you have a bad rotator, then you will be limited.



“Seriously stop with the teenager bullshit, Im fed up with that. You wouldnt have said a damn thing too my posts had I put my birthdate as 83 or 82. I dont claim to know everything, and Ive used a few techniques from this board (even more from that video that was posted). I post what works for ME, Ive shaped my workout over the past two years and post what I think has helped my muscle growth the most. Just as YOU have done and the rest of the members on this board.”



I dont even know if you know how old I am...if you posted you were born in 83 you would still be a young buck



Its great that you learned something from the video...I didnt..I've learned that stuff a while ago. That doesnt make me better than you...experienced? maybe. We could proably learn from each other.



“If you dont mind, what exactly was so flawed about any of my posts? Ill offer a multitude of bodybuilding forums, magazine articles and scientific studies to support them. Im not posting crap tips or exercises, and think my exercise is very balanced.”



Nothing wrong with that...but that shit doesnt always work. They sell Muscletech in those magazines..would you use it just because its there? Hell naw.



Real world experience is better than that shit. However, if you try something you find in a mag and it works, post your review on it...but dont give it as advice because you read it and somebody else says it works.



I dont recommend anything unless I've tried it first - that's just me.



“Thanks for pointing my "Inconsistancy out", if you havent noticed me and Donnie poke fun of each others techniques quite a bit, and I just wanted to have a little fun with him. Jesus christ cant you guys take an semi-inside joke “



Joke?! Nobody gave me the damn memo



I'll keep that in mind...i've never met anyone on this board..so I'm outside of the loop.



“ BTW what cycle were you referring too? A cutting cycle, bulking or steroid? Ive never heard of anyone getting sick from eating smaller leaner meals and extra cardio. Im not doing a hardcore cutting phase like cutting carbs and modifying sodium intake, Im just doing a hell of a lot more cardio exercises. Not many people fall down dead or get physically ill off that.”



I’m talking about the Juice nigga..anybody can do a cutting cycle



“ EDIT : My spelling sucks.”



Mine too..that's why I have so many edits.

[Dunecune442]

Fuck juicing, Ive never advised anyone to do that. No bueno unless your hardcore bodybuilder.

I only post what Ive tried, and Thats mainly been building mass with diff. forms of weight (barbell and dumbell). I would go higher for dumbell but lifestyles only goes to 110, and I do that 6 times. I need more at this point, no reason to hit a ceiling and stay there.

Thanks for the reply. Now, Old man, how old are you :-P

[Shizzle]

Fuck juicing, Ive never advised anyone to do that. No bueno unless your hardcore bodybuilder.

I only post what Ive tried, and Thats mainly been building mass with diff. forms of weight (barbell and dumbell). I would go higher for dumbell but lifestyles only goes to 110, and I do that 6 times. I need more at this point, no reason to hit a ceiling and stay there.

Thanks for the reply. Now, Old man, how old are you :-P

Hehe...27.

I started lifting at about 15..freshman football. We actually HAD to take a weight class. So on and off I've had over 10 years of trying stuff...

Everything from Boron steroids to Liquid creatine..lol

[Dunecune442]

Hehe...27.

I started lifting at about 15..freshman football. We actually HAD to take a weight class. So on and off I've had over 10 years of trying stuff...

Everything from Boron steroids to Liquid creatine..lol

pics or ban old man :-P

[Shizzle]

pics or ban old man :-P

I guess I'm banned..no pics.

I'm at LFF in Westchase M-F after 6..PM me and we'll hit it.

[Strongest Man In The World]

Honestly, from what you've told me, your bulk doesn't seem to be THAT bad. I mean i'm all for clean bulks, but as is completely obvious, that shit is hard to keep clean while maintaining enough calories AND expensive.

I just look at it this way. Fat is as easily lost as it is gained. muscle on the other hand isnt. Id rather eat everything in site and put on alot of muscle along with fat, then take the fat off afterwards. Like ive said before. ive lost 85 lbs before. i can loose 35 no problem

[Dunecune442]

I guess I'm banned..no pics.

I'm at LFF in Westchase M-F after 6..PM me and we'll hit it.

PM me a time, well do a no-holds dumbell "lift off" :fart:

[raveman7]

Everything from Boron steroids to Liquid creatine..lol

baron steriods?