It will fly on a treadmill!!!!!!!!!!! [Archive]

View Full Version : It will fly on a treadmill!!!!!!!!!!!

Goop

12-13-2007, 11:27 AM

http://myspacetv.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=3631119

:lol:

TampaTraps

12-13-2007, 11:36 AM

yeah i mean if a motherfucking shrimp can jog on a motherfucking treadmill then a motherfucking plane can take off and fly on a motherfucking treadmill. motherfucker

2002lancer-oz

12-13-2007, 01:57 PM

I dont know if anyone has already posted this but here....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EopVDgSPAk

hacker style

12-13-2007, 02:48 PM

I dont know if anyone has already posted this but here....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EopVDgSPAk
that was the most unscientific bullshit ever, I love how he says proven. hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

I cant wait for the day when you guys finally get it.

hacker style

12-13-2007, 03:11 PM

yeah i mean if a motherfucking shrimp can jog on a motherfucking treadmill then a motherfucking plane can take off and fly on a motherfucking treadmill. motherfucker

:lol:

beebo10

12-13-2007, 05:13 PM

video failed

SilentBob86

12-13-2007, 05:22 PM

hahaa...dude...why the fuck would anyone wanna put a shrimp on a treadmill???

JN210

01-01-2008, 01:58 PM

what?.....uh...yeah...who does that? lol

WTFchuck

01-01-2008, 09:43 PM

that was the most unscientific bullshit ever, I love how he says proven. hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

I cant wait for the day when you guys finally get it.

that ur a complete fkin idiot? too late we already know that

Goop

01-01-2008, 10:37 PM

that was the most unscientific bullshit ever, I love how he says proven. hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

I cant wait for the day when you guys finally get it.

I still cant wait till you get it ;)

It moved, didn't it? Of course it did.

If you let a plane sit on freespinning NON powered wheels so it can be balanced upright and move with little friction, the engines will create thrust and move the plane forward overpowering the drag of the treadmill. The plane will soon gain lift created by the wings and the forward movement of the plane + the current of the air moving over/under the wings. Tadaaaaaah flight!

amazing I know...

TrackStar

01-02-2008, 01:26 PM

hey now, dont bring intelligence into a plane on a treadmill debate...

hacker style

01-02-2008, 03:53 PM

jan 30th Rtards

BareLy UgLy

01-02-2008, 04:19 PM

i've never met a self proclaimed genius who was vindicated. maybe you could be the first?

Goop

01-02-2008, 07:32 PM

jan 30th Rtards

:lol: @ Trackstar haha

And what is Jan 30th? The actual flight really happening and you crying?

TrackStar

01-02-2008, 11:34 PM

this is like saying KYjelly doesnt prevent skin burn when fucking raw

think about that one...

I love throwing stupid examples for stupid people into this debate.

Goop

01-03-2008, 06:56 PM

I just wanna know what happens on the 30th of this month..... lol

Achill3s

01-03-2008, 08:51 PM

Wow, this again. I had a 2 hour arguement with one of my friends over this. He thinks it won't fly either. I do. But I don't want to argue it. Just want to say SHUT THE FUCK UP AND WAIT FOR THE SHOW!

Josh

01-03-2008, 09:57 PM

I still cant wait till you get it ;)

It moved, didn't it? Of course it did.

If you let a plane sit on freespinning NON powered wheels so it can be balanced upright and move with little friction, the engines will create thrust and move the plane forward overpowering the drag of the treadmill. The plane will soon gain lift created by the wings and the forward movement of the plane + the current of the air moving over/under the wings. Tadaaaaaah flight!

amazing I know...

in order for the plane to over power the drag of the treadmill, the friction coefficient would have to be greater than the drag. the way you are explaining it, the plane would sit in place, not allowing air to flow under the wings and thus generate lift.

because the wheels are forced to overcome the friction of a non moving runway, the plane must attain a certain speed - coincidentally, there will be enough lift under the wings for the plane to take off.

if the plane is sitting in place little to no wind will be passing underneath the wing - certainly not enough to generate lift needed to overcome the drag.

Goop

01-03-2008, 10:48 PM

in order for the plane to over power the drag of the treadmill, the friction coefficient would have to be greater than the drag. the way you are explaining it, the plane would sit in place, not allowing air to flow under the wings and thus generate lift.

because the wheels are forced to overcome the friction of a non moving runway, the plane must attain a certain speed - coincidentally, there will be enough lift under the wings for the plane to take off.

if the plane is sitting in place little to no wind will be passing underneath the wing - certainly not enough to generate lift needed to overcome the drag.

you is teh wrong, I am teh sorry for joo.

TrackStar

01-04-2008, 11:31 AM

hacker style

01-04-2008, 11:45 AM

I love when dumb people try to pretend they're smart, like they're fooling anybody.

WTFchuck

01-04-2008, 12:04 PM

like yourself? theres a big difference between ground forces and wind/air forces

hacker style

01-04-2008, 12:16 PM

good one Chuck, good one. Is that the second time in one thread you've used that rebuttal?

BAMF

01-04-2008, 01:17 PM

I love morons who talk about drag and friction... its like they don't understand that the wheels are free spinning and are basically the kyjelly between the plane and the ground...

god people are stupid.

Wrong.

If you had a treadmill that could increase speed exponentially into infinity you could do it. In reality, the plane would eveuntually lift off. But still, if CAN be done, in theroy.

BareLy UgLy

01-04-2008, 02:10 PM

^ listen to what you just said. you want to build a treadmill that can increase speed infinitely fast so friction would be created on the wheels (by means of the bearings failing?) to slow it down and hence the airplane won't be able to keep up with the treadmill (and might be moving backwards) until the engine can generate enough force to offset this (force of friction) and then move forward and get enough speed/airflow to take off.

why don't you just stick a fork and jam the wheels? you'll get the same effect.

TrackStar

01-04-2008, 02:33 PM

oh my god

Goop

01-04-2008, 03:55 PM

I love morons who talk about drag and friction... its like they don't understand that the wheels are free spinning and are basically the kyjelly between the plane and the ground...

god people are stupid.

There is drag, its the treadmill moving in the opposite direction. But how much drag is it? Enough to keep a multiple jet engines on a fuesolage(sp) with wheeels under it completely still or dragging/lagging behind from friction? nah, not even close.:)

BAMF

01-04-2008, 03:59 PM

There is drag, its the treadmill moving in the opposite direction. But how much drag is it? Enough to keep a multiple jet engines on a fuesolage(sp) with wheeels under it completely still or dragging/lagging behind from friction? nah, not even close.:)

HEnce where it becomes possible in theroy, but impossible in practice.

Goop

01-04-2008, 04:20 PM

HEnce where it becomes possible in theroy, but impossible in practice.
NEH! You lose too, you suck!

It will fly, but who wants to beat the dead horse some more? jeeebus!

BAMF

01-04-2008, 04:40 PM

NEH! You lose too, you suck!

It will fly, but who wants to beat the dead horse some more? jeeebus!

Oh shit, dude. Did they ever give you a wheelchair that you kept? I've got a welder, some scrap metal, and I'm sure I could get ahold of a small jet engine. Its time to try this myth out! :headbang:

BareLy UgLy

01-04-2008, 04:41 PM

HEnce where it becomes possible in theroy, but impossible in practice.

did you just busted your theory?

BAMF

01-04-2008, 04:48 PM

did you just busted your theory?

A while ago today, actually. Sapphic Erotica kicks ass.

BareLy UgLy

01-04-2008, 04:54 PM

BAMF

01-04-2008, 05:05 PM

i can't justify paying for porn anymore. there is so much free stuff out there. and i really don't need to see women with perfect tits and ass getting fucked sideways to bust. nice cleanly shaved home grown vid that got loose is good enough for me goose.

Who the hell said I paid for it? I downloaded .torrent files of it. And its amazing. The girls are fucking awesome.

TrackStar

01-04-2008, 05:14 PM

There is drag, its the treadmill moving in the opposite direction. But how much drag is it? Enough to keep a multiple jet engines on a fuesolage(sp) with wheeels under it completely still or dragging/lagging behind from friction? nah, not even close.:)

basically my point with the KYjelly reference.... theres still drag with kyjelly on your dick thrusting into some bitchs hole but its not enough to slow you down.

BigBadBuick

01-04-2008, 05:18 PM

Holy Christ, this again??

I just thought of something, can a pontoon plane take off if it is going up stream?

BAMF

01-04-2008, 05:21 PM

Holy Christ, this again??

I just thought of something, can a pontoon plane take off if it is going up stream?

Depends on the forcee with which the stream is pushing it backwards. Different thing, in any case.

BigBadBuick

01-04-2008, 05:23 PM

Depends on the force with which the stream is pushing it backwards. Different thing, in any case.It's something new to argue about.

Cal

01-04-2008, 05:31 PM

lol idiots. it doesnt take off.

Goop

01-04-2008, 09:18 PM

Holy Christ, this again??

I just thought of something, can a pontoon plane take off if it is going up stream?

Someone already mentioned that, good call on that! ;)

And no Im didn't get to keep a wheelchair when I left the hospital ASS. I was walking before they ever needed to give me one, and I only used one when I wanted to take a rest and not have to walk to the cafeteria, but instead be pushed there.

Goop

01-04-2008, 09:19 PM

lol idiots. it doesnt take off.

The little kid proved it with a treadmill, a toy plane, and his dad taping it. BAAAAAM! In yo mothafucking face baaaaaaah!!!!!!!:lol:

Cal

01-04-2008, 09:29 PM

lol i really hope you meant to end that with a /sarcasm

Goop

01-04-2008, 09:46 PM

lol i really hope you meant to end that with a /sarcasm

not even remotely close to that reality, sorry for confusing your peanut :D

BAMF

01-05-2008, 01:27 AM

Someone already mentioned that, good call on that! ;)

And no Im didn't get to keep a wheelchair when I left the hospital ASS. I was walking before they ever needed to give me one, and I only used one when I wanted to take a rest and not have to walk to the cafeteria, but instead be pushed there.

Aww c'mon, don't get all buttsore, you know its a badass idea! If I had a wheelchair I'd try it.

Goop

01-05-2008, 02:40 AM

Aww c'mon, don't get all buttsore, you know its a badass idea! If I had a wheelchair I'd try it.

You wouldn't fly though, your too full of shit to get off the ground :lol:

Achill3s

01-05-2008, 04:29 AM

Ok I found someone who explains this in a very technical way. Maybe a little to technical for some of you to understand but BAM! STFU!

The plane will take off.
Simple explanation:
Treadmill has no effect on the body of the plane

Physics style explanation:
Force exerted by treadmill => pure Rotational Kinematic Energy of the wheel
Force exerted by engine => pure Kinematic Energy of the plane.

More detailed answer:
The treadmill is acting tangent to the (assumed) free-spinning wheel. A force acting tangent to a free-spinning object can not cause any force on the axis, only a rotational force causing the object to spin about its axis. Therefor The only thing that the treadmill can do is cause the wheels to spin.
The engines on the other hand, are causing a thrusting force which is acting on the wings (or whichever part of the plan that the engine happens to be connected to. Since it is rigidly connected, the force is carried by the member it is connected with towards the CoM (Center of Mass). This transposed force on the Center of Mass causes an accelerations (F=ma). Basic physics principles will explain why and when a force can be translated to a different point. If you read and understand these principles you will note that the force can be translated from its origin to the CoM in a rigid body. Note, also, that on a free-spinning object, a force acting tangent to this object can not be translated to the axle which is the only part of the wheel assembly that is considered to be part of the rigid body of the plane.
Hence, if you use the basic theory of F=ma you will note that the sum of the forces acting on the rigid body of the plane is the thrust and only the thrust. Therefore, the thrust is directly proportional to the acceleration without regard to the force of the treadmill.

Now that was in a "perfect physical world." Very few things change when converting that logic to the real world. These are the following forces that should be taken into account:

Force of friction due to the wheel touching the ground: This can be assumed zero as the tire in both the stated question as well as in real life does not slip relative to the treadmill. If the tire did slip (as if it was locked up) the tire would be considered part of the rigid body and the force of the treadmill would effect the CoM and thus the acceleration. Whether the plane would be able to take off in such a situation would depend on the coefficient of friction between the locked wheel and the ground (very similar to how a seaplane is affected by the water it is in).

Force of friction due to rotation of the wheel about the axle: Most people would agree that a spinning wheel, especially if properly lubricated and fastened as it would be on a plane, causes very little friction on the axle. This friction, however, will add a force that is counteracting the thrust. Once again, though, for this force to cause a plane to not reach take-off speed, the wheel would have to have very high friction, and even then it would still depend on how powerful the engines are (once again, imagine a seaplane and the friction/drag caused by the water, yet it is still able to take off). Therefore, except in extreme rare cases, this will not substantially affect the motion of the plane.

Drag force: The plane is submitted to drag force caused by the air whether it is on a treadmill or not. Airplanes are built with aerodynamics in mind as to minimize this drag force. The only difference might be if the treadmill is causing a velocity in the air, however this would be similar to a breeze in the wind which would cause higher drag forces, but also would move more air over the wings causing higher lift forces. Therefore, in this problem this can also be assumed zero.

Hence, even in a non-perfect physical world, the plane still has a very overwhelming net force moving it forward.

A demonstration for the skeptical to prove that the plane moves:
Many people do not or can not understand the physics and believe the plane will still not move. To prove that the plane will move forward, try the following experiment.
Take a yo-yo (a free spinning one that will not automatically wind as it spins) and unwind the string. Now roll the yo-yo across the table by pulling the string. That is, in effect, how the plane would move on a normal runway: an external force not connected to the ground. Now, to make a moving runway, place the yo-yo on a piece of paper. While pulling the string in one direction, pull the paper in the opposite direction and note the results. It will move in the same direction that you are pulling. Also note that if you pull both slow, it may feel harder to pull than on regular ground. This is due to the rotational friction discussed earlier. However, if you increase the force with which you pull, you will also discover that the higher the "thrusting" force, the less of an effect the rotational friction has on the movement. To further this experiment, you can try replacing the normal string with fishing line to lower the friction even more, or by using ball bearings. Remember that a proper plane wheel will be greased and have relatively low friction.

A demonstration for those who do not understand the translation of forces:
Take a bicycle and turn it upside down to rest on the handle bars and seat. Next, take your hand and push on the front wheel at mid height of the wheel. you will notice that the wheel will not rotate and the bicycle frame may move. Now take the same wheel and push tangent to the wheel in any direction. You will notice that the closer you get to tangent, the more of your force that is turned into rotation and the less that is turned into a force on the frame. If you were able to push perfectly tangent (which is basically what the treadmill is doing) you will see that it has all of its force turned into the wheel spinning and none of it acting on the frame of the bicycle.

For those wondering my credentials: I am a senior in engineering at Penn State University, but 95% of this material was covered in my first two years of physics while in high school. The other 5% comes from the other 3 years of physics in college as well as the 3 years of Engineering Mechanics (that 5% being the non-perfect world scenario).

I hope that this clears up any misunderstandings about this problem, and if you made it this far in the post: congratulations. If you made it this far and still don't believe it will fly, go outside and play sports or find something else to do because you are too stubborn to learn physics.

by butch81385 on http://digg.com/comedy/Plane_and_a_Treadmill_Problem_Explained_by_a_Canad ian

Achill3s

01-05-2008, 04:54 AM

Now with that being said. I thought the same as many of my friends. The plane will not take off. WRONG! The plane will take off. Think of Newtons Third Law. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. You have 4 reactions in this equation. First and foremost, the two that is making everyone forget about the 2nd two, the reaction between the wheels and the treadmill. Two reactions that cancel each other out. Then there is the thrust of the engines against the STATIONARY AIR! The second 2 reactions! Those are TWO COMPLETLY DIFFERENT FORCES. Newton would laugh at all of those who think the plane would not take off. The force of the engine, or for those that need crayon (the wind that is pushed from the blades spinning thru the air creating a rearward thrust due to angle of the blade) against the STATIONARY AIR! will cause the BODY of the plane to move forward. The little friction that you think the wheels will create will only slow the plane down a little. And ass you all have agreed, the plane needs forward momentum to create LIFT, There is nothing stopping the plane from moving forward but a LITTLE friction. Definetly not enough to counteract the trust from the engine. Jet or prop. Doesn't matter the plane will take off. and to quote my Canadian friend (If you made it this far and still don't believe it will fly, go outside and play sports or find something else to do because you are too stubborn to learn physics.) NUFF SAID!!!! STFU AND WAIT FOR MYTHBUSTERS TO MAKE YOU ALL NON BELIEVERS TO LOOK LIKE IDIOTS! By the way, I would like to voice my guess on what he Mythbusters will close this as! ~PLAUSIBLE~

HybridSS

01-05-2008, 12:58 PM

Goop and Achilles are right.

Achilles you also hit on a key point and highlighted it. Stationary Air.....or atleast stationary until the plane begins to move fwd from its original position and pick up fwd airspeed like any normal plane. the treadmill has almost no effect in this equation.

you could probably run the treadmill at ten times the reverse speed...and if the tires didnt blow...the plane would still take off.

Its amazing how this one subject hit a dividing line like it did.

Thats more fascinating to me than the original question.

BareLy UgLy

01-05-2008, 01:01 PM

Holy Christ, this again??

I just thought of something, can a pontoon plane take off if it is going up stream?

i wanna see them test that theory at niagra falls. fly or die bitches.

HybridSS

01-05-2008, 01:02 PM

Holy Christ, this again??

I just thought of something, can a pontoon plane take off if it is going up stream?

Thats a good example too. Yes it can. Although the pontoons friction with the water is quite a bit higher than a regular wheel bearing.

jabtay

01-05-2008, 01:54 PM

Ok I found someone who explains this in a very technical way. Maybe a little to technical for some of you to understand but BAM! STFU!
Why is all of that information so hard for people to understand???

Goop

01-05-2008, 02:00 PM

Why is all of that information so hard for people to understand???

It's a lot of information to comprehend, and remember at once. If you wanna spend 20 minutes breaking it down, sure it'd be easy but most people are not interested enough to learn the information you put in front of them, and those people are the ones who think it will not fly.

Jeff

01-05-2008, 02:03 PM

ChristiMarie

01-05-2008, 02:08 PM

hahaa...dude...why the fuck would anyone wanna put a shrimp on a treadmill???

I don't care but that shit's funny.

HybridSS

01-05-2008, 02:12 PM

So if you have equal force going backwards as you do going forwards, can the plane still take off? if the plane cannot overcome the fictional treadmill's reverse motion, what now?

Will the thrust of the engines lift the plane off of the ground at 0 mph?

It sounds like you guys are arguing the same point but changing key factors in the problem.

I think the original question is stating that both the motion of the treadmill, and the thrust of the engines are equal. I assume this cancels each other out, causing no forward motion, and no lift.

Im far from intelligent though. :tard:

what makes you think the firctional force is going to be equal? it wont even be close?

Thats not what the original question states and it would not be a representation of real world forces.

For the firctional forces to be equal...the jet would have to be putting out about 200-1000 lbs of thrust probably....depending on its size.

Of course many jets have thrust ranges from 5000- 180,000 lbs depending on thier size.

It wont even be a match between wheel bearing drag (friction) and fwd air thrust. That bitch is going fwd.....even if you tripled the speed of the conveyer.

Oh..btw...I have pulled, pushed and dragged thousands of aircraft of various sizes both by pushing them with a bunch of people and with tugs. So I do know the approximate force it takes to push an aircraft.

HybridSS

01-05-2008, 02:25 PM

so how about this example. The actual fwd airspeed required for plane X to take off is 150 knots. It has to accelerate to 150 kts from it original position in order to get 150 kts of airspeed over the wings (assuming there is no head wind and no tial wind)

Go ahead and start the treat mill at 450 kts in the REVERSE direction as the aircraft powers up its engines. That bitch will STILL take off with the tread mill going 3 times the required take off speed in reverse.

I think you guys get hung up on the original riddles wording of "matching" the wheel speed. Its irrelavant.

The wheel friction at 4 times what it would be at rest (450 kts for the reverse treadmill and + the 150 for the actual fwd speed of the aircraft relative to its start position= 600 kts wheel speed) would be represented as drag in lbs. The drag in lbs of 600 mph on those wheel bearings would still pale in comparison the the amount of THRUST available. We are talking probably several thousand pounds of drag from wheel friction VS tens of thousands or even hundreds of thousands of lbs of thrust...it has no choice but to move fwd from its start point.

Because really...you only need to look at drag vs thrust to figure this out. At no time is the drag that would be present in double, triple or even quadruple the take of speed going to match or exceed available take off thrust. So unless you guys can describe or show some other type of hidden force there....in the drag vs thrust war...thrust still wins by a mile in this scenario.

Jeff

01-05-2008, 02:26 PM

Isn't thie entire thing a hypothetical question? IE, the tredmill can and is doing as much force as the plane? Is the plane a jet or a prop plane? It's never stated as far as I recall. Then again, I could be wrong here.

In a real world question, can the plane take off on a tredmill? Of course. The treadmill is a minor speedbump. I didn't think that's what we were asking here...?

what makes you think the firctional force is going to be equal? it wont even be close?

Thats not what the original question states and it would not be a representation of real world forces.

For the firctional forces to be equal...the jet would have to be putting out about 200-1000 lbs of thrust probably....depending on its size.

Of course many jets have thrust ranges from 5000- 180,000 lbs depending on thier size.

It wont even be a match between wheel bearing drag (friction) and fwd air thrust. That bitch is going fwd.....even if you tripled the speed of the conveyer.

Oh..btw...I have pulled, pushed and dragged thousands of aircraft of various sizes both by pushing them with a bunch of people and with tugs. So I do know the approximate force it takes to push an aircraft.

Jeff

01-05-2008, 02:30 PM

HybridSS

01-05-2008, 02:38 PM

Jeff

01-05-2008, 02:40 PM

Perhaps I missed the properly worded, original question? Anyone mind posting up the original tredmilll question? I suppose I rationalized something that isn't ment to be rational.

see...they dont say force...they say speed..wheel speed specifically.

Two vastly different things.

Goop

01-05-2008, 02:43 PM

If anyone doubts this because they dont think an aircraft can create enough thrust to move forward because of a simple treadmill AKA the drag, then watch the MythBusters episode where they put a car in the back of jetwash and see how high and far it goes.... It's amazing beyond words to me. I seriously sat there in complete awe...

HybridSS

01-05-2008, 02:43 PM

On second thought. I don't think there has been enough information provided in the original question to give this serious thought. Hence how slow I am... since there is nothing stating the thrust going fwd, or backward this question cannot in any reasonable terms be answered, hypothetically or real-world.

Well...various types of aircraft have wheel designs based on size and weight...as do the rated thrust of thier engines. there IS a relationship there that can be counted on pretty easily.

The potential drag from various aircrafts wheels would have to be compared to thier rated thrust. That relationship should not be remoltely close in any case of any aircraft. And I have given real world examples and estimates of actual forces of drag on typical aircraft. Thrust can be read on the engines data plates. So i feel I can make an assumption...a fairly accurate one...THE AIRPLANE WILL FLY MOTHERFUCKERS!!!!!!!!!!:crack: :lol: :lmao:

HybridSS

01-05-2008, 02:46 PM

Perhaps I missed the properly worded, original question? Anyone mind posting up the original tredmilll question? I suppose I rationalized something that isn't ment to be rational.

yeah...there is actually a couple variations...but they do all say wheel speed IIRC.

If they ever said force then your first anwser would be correct...aircraft wont go anywhere.

Jeff

01-05-2008, 02:53 PM

yeah...there is actually a couple variations...but they do all say wheel speed IIRC.

If they ever said force then your first anwser would be correct...aircraft wont go anywhere.

I suppose my assumption was a little skewed from the original question then. I thought of the entire question as force backwards(treadmill), and force forwards(turbines/prop).

Goop

01-05-2008, 02:55 PM

http://www.tampaforums.com/forums/free-4-all/will-start-some-controversy-259827/

Taken from another forum.

Imagine a plane is sat on the beginning of a massive conveyor belt/travelator type arrangement, as wide and as long as a runway, and intends to take off. The conveyer belt is designed to exactly match the speed of the wheels at any given time, moving in the opposite direction of rotation.
There is no wind.
Can the plane take off?

Jeff

01-05-2008, 03:06 PM

See with that it's kinda stupid. The wheels themselves have no rotation except that created by the planes motion forward. The wheels have little bearing to the planes takeoff. They're on there to be a happy medium between the ground or treadmill and the plane itself. I really do think I'm not smart enough for this question.

I like my version of the question better.

http://www.tampaforums.com/forums/free-4-all/will-start-some-controversy-259827/

Taken from another forum.

Imagine a plane is sat on the beginning of a massive conveyor belt/travelator type arrangement, as wide and as long as a runway, and intends to take off. The conveyer belt is designed to exactly match the speed of the wheels at any given time, moving in the opposite direction of rotation.
There is no wind.
Can the plane take off?

Panzerbane

01-05-2008, 03:11 PM

How the fuck can the plane take off if it is effectively stationary? the wheels have nothing to do with airflow over the wings in this scenario THERE IS NO WIND as it states. If you hoisted the plane up on jacks and spun the wheels freely without a treadmill or runway underneath it and there was no wind, would it take off?

NO! IT WOULDN'T! BECAUSE THE PLANE IS STATIONARY!

All of these toy planes and models and mythbusting do not portray an accurate representation of the plane.

Wheels spinning at same speed as treadmill = plane is stationary and therefore no lift.

The purpose of the wheels and the engine on an airplane is to provide FORWARD THRUST into the wind or the air, creating forward momentum and displacing the air as it moves in order to create lift beneath the wings.

Different scenario: Hang Glider, Human Being, Treadmill, No wind. Will the motherfucker fly?

NO!

I get dragged around my apartment drunk as shit last night by my psychopathic roomate intent on arguing this god awful waste of time for over an hour last night and I have been listening to it go on for over a week now. IT WONT FLY THERE IS NO LIFT IT WILL NOT FLY THE PLANE IS EFFECTIVELY STATIONARY IT WILL NOT FUCKING FLY GET OVER IT!

AUGH!

/rant

Jeff

01-05-2008, 03:18 PM

You're confusing it a bit.

The thrust from the plane would rip it right off the jacks.

If we could effectively make the plane float with no wheels or anything touching the ground, the plane would still move forward because the jet engines or prop are pushing air backward, causing thrust.

How the fuck can the plane take off if it is effectively stationary? the wheels have nothing to do with airflow over the wings in this scenario THERE IS NO WIND as it states. If you hoisted the plane up on jacks and spun the wheels freely without a treadmill or runway underneath it and there was no wind, would it take off?

NO! IT WOULDN'T! BECAUSE THE PLANE IS STATIONARY!

All of these toy planes and models and mythbusting do not portray an accurate representation of the plane.

Wheels spinning at same speed as treadmill = plane is stationary and therefore no lift.

The purpose of the wheels and the engine on an airplane is to provide FORWARD THRUST into the wind or the air, creating forward momentum and displacing the air as it moves in order to create lift beneath the wings.

Different scenario: Hang Glider, Human Being, Treadmill, No wind. Will the motherfucker fly?

NO!

I get dragged around my apartment drunk as shit last night by my psychopathic roomate intent on arguing this god awful waste of time for over an hour last night and I have been listening to it go on for over a week now. IT WONT FLY THERE IS NO LIFT IT WILL NOT FLY THE PLANE IS EFFECTIVELY STATIONARY IT WILL NOT FUCKING FLY GET OVER IT!

AUGH!

/rant

Jeff

01-05-2008, 03:20 PM

Here's another way to think of it. A rocket pointed upward, with a treadmill on wheels on it's horizontal axis, the rocket fires, will it take off? Yes. because the wheels and treadmill have nothing to do with it's takeoff.

BigBadBuick

01-05-2008, 03:52 PM

Goop

01-05-2008, 04:11 PM

Jeff

01-05-2008, 04:29 PM

The wheels are unpowered and have nothing to do with this eqaution except that they keep the plane upright and not in crash mode. The thrust from the engines will overpower any drag by a substantial amount, and therfore we have forward movement which leads to lift.

No, the thrusters will not overpower any drag. They will however in the case of this question, because the wheels have little to do with it.

Goop

01-05-2008, 04:32 PM

No, the thrusters will not overpower any drag. They will however in the case of this question, because the wheels have little to do with it.

drag is the treadmill moving backwards. It is the opposing force trying to hold the plane back. The engines create thrust to counter that force. They will do so, and overpower said force with great ease. The wheels as you said have little to do with it, they are just a medium if you will. They ensure that the plane stays upright because if not wheels, what magic powers will float the plane before it creates enough forward movement to generate lift?

Jeff

01-05-2008, 05:54 PM

drag is the treadmill moving backwards. It is the opposing force trying to hold the plane back. The engines create thrust to counter that force. They will do so, and overpower said force with great ease. The wheels as you said have little to do with it, they are just a medium if you will. They ensure that the plane stays upright because if not wheels, what magic powers will float the plane before it creates enough forward movement to generate lift?

You don't put a lot of thought in your answers. It sounds like some of the things you say just spew out like a septic pipe that's just burst.

The thrust from the engines is what provides the forward momentum. The wheels, or the treadmill, just don't matter.

I was pointing out that you mentioned the thrusters would overpower any (IE. ALL) drag. This isn't true. If you point the plane nose into a wall, it ain't takin off. I'd say that's enough drag for ya.

Cal

01-05-2008, 07:56 PM

it wont take off. if the plane stays motionless with respect to the ground (as it should if the treadmill acts in sync with the plane) then it stays still.-

HybridSS

01-05-2008, 08:02 PM

The purpose of the wheels and the engine on an airplane is to provide FORWARD THRUST into the wind or the air, creating forward momentum and displacing the air as it moves in order to create lift beneath the wings.

/rant

:lol: :lol: You dont now much about airplanes do you?
The purpose of the wheels is to support the aircraft...and provide a means to roll...it plays no part in thrust AT all...thats why the wheels are irrelevalnt. Only the engine provides thrust.

Plane will fly=big brains
Plane will not fly=impropelry working brain:lol:

Just take our word for it....knuckleheads:P

BareLy UgLy

01-05-2008, 08:50 PM

it wont take off. if the plane stays motionless with respect to the ground (as it should if the treadmill acts in sync with the plane) then it stays still.-

this man needs to be strapped to a rocket to learn the basics of thrust.

Goop

01-06-2008, 01:09 AM

You don't put a lot of thought in your answers. It sounds like some of the things you say just spew out like a septic pipe that's just burst.

The thrust from the engines is what provides the forward momentum. The wheels, or the treadmill, just don't matter.

I was pointing out that you mentioned the thrusters would overpower any (IE. ALL) drag. This isn't true. If you point the plane nose into a wall, it ain't takin off. I'd say that's enough drag for ya.

I understand it, it still seems you do not so Jeff please continue with your little talks of how I have yet to put any thought into my answers, and that Im spewing this shit like a septic pipe. The wheels matter only because without them, the plane would be on the ground completely. The treadmill matters only because it's the force representing drag. A wall cant be considered drag, it just cant. Its sitting there, that's all. Put something that creates that much thrust and let it sit on wheels and no matter what speed you kick that thing on to, the thrust will surely overpower it with great ease.

End of story, its simply not negotiable, then again Im wasting my time and my breath.

Goop

01-06-2008, 01:12 AM

it wont take off. if the plane stays motionless with respect to the ground (as it should if the treadmill acts in sync with the plane) then it stays still.-

It doesn't act in sync with the plane. From what I have gathered, its wheels are supposed to be spinning in sync, not the plane. So if the wheels that are completely unpowered stay in sync with the treadmill that is rolling backwards and causing those wheels to spin, then adding thrust to the air from the plane will make it move forward.

HybridSS

01-06-2008, 10:20 PM

is about as realistic as thinking that if ya put wings on a car it will fly with just wheels. It has to have a jet or prop fool. And the plane will have a jet or prop, which is what stops the plane from staying stationary.

YOU FAIL!

great point...ask that question...what will happen if you put wings on a car...and accelerate it to take off speed....will the car take off?:lol: :lmao:

SilentBob86

01-06-2008, 11:23 PM

sooo...after skimming over this ive come up with a solution.

Take ky jelly covered shrimp and replace the plane wheels with them and the plane WILL FLY!!!!

YAY KY JELLY SHRIMP WHEELS!

Goop

01-07-2008, 02:29 AM

I just got it..... Im drunk, and I discovered they were all right, all along. It wont fly..... :lol: yeaaaaah fucking right biiiiotch!

It'll fly. Go back to schoooooool damnit!

hacker style

01-07-2008, 03:31 PM

I think I'm gonna get working on a remix video for release on the 30th.

hacker style

01-12-2009, 10:25 PM

nope didnt do it