SP Times: Time to give Allen credit

[Bucsfan]

Not to brag or anything, but everything I have said is coming to fruition.

(oh, and ESPN is reporting that McKay will no longer be GM in Atlanta, yet another confirmation that I knew what I was talking about all along)

http://www.sptimes.com/2007/12/18/Bucs/Time_to_give_Allen_cr.shtml


Time to give Allen credit

Bruce Allen, along with Jon Gruden, deserves plenty of credit for the Bucs huge turnaround

By John Romano
Published December 18, 2007

TAMPA - In another place, they would be talking of his genius. They would howl about the sack master he found working the door at Best Buy and the kick returner he pulled out of nowhere.

In another time, they would be talking of his nerve. They would wonder how he could possibly fathom the rebuilding of a franchise by signing a 37-year-old quarterback and a 34-year-old defensive end.

In another situation, they would be lining up to buy him drinks.

Yet, here, we joke about him making the coffee.

Such is the life of Bruce Allen, the theoretical general manager. Be it happenstance or design, Allen is not receiving the praise commonly due a front office executive who presides over a team's rise from last place to first.

Free agents. Trades. Draft picks. All have Allen's fingerprints, yet none seem to stick to him. At least, none of the ones that work.

Until now, he was the man who brought you Charlie Garner. The GM who signed the twin turnstiles that were Todd Steussie and Derrick Deese. The villain who chased John Lynch from your sight.

Yet, now that the Buccaneers have won their second division title in three seasons, it might be worth reconsidering Allen's value as a general manager. As in, maybe he has more than you realized.

"Bruce has done an outstanding job," Jon Gruden said Monday. "I've got a lot of confidence and respect for him."

Of course, Gruden is a large part of Allen's image problem. Maybe not intentionally. And maybe not consciously. But the Bucs head coach casts an enormous shadow, which frequently leaves Allen in the cold.

The perception is Gruden calls the shots and Allen does his bidding. The coach did not leap at a chance to dispute that characterization Monday, but the reality resides a little deeper.

The philosophy in the Bucs front office is Gruden and defensive coordinator Monte Kiffin know the type of players needed to fit game plans and schemes, and so the coaching staff should have a strong input on personnel decisions.

Gruden had a long-running infatuation with Jeff Garcia -so the front office signed him. Gruden was a big fan of Kevin Carter's - so the front office signed him. Gruden clashed with several receivers - and now they're all gone.

"Bruce does a great job of sitting down with Jon and spending X amount of time and then walking out of the room and explaining to us exactly what he's looking for," said Mark Dominik, director of pro personnel. "It works because of how strong their relationship is and how well they work together.

"Bruce has no problem disagreeing with Jon, and in the end they always come to a good agreement."

The book on Allen was that he was an administrator. A contract negotiator and a salary cap manipulator. His background leaned heavily toward the executive side and not so much on the nuts and bolts of scouting.

It is a resume that should sound familiar, for it is not so different from the man he replaced. Like Allen, former Bucs GM Rich McKay is the son of a Hall of Fame coach. Like Allen, he made his name on the business side of the sport. Like Allen, his greatest success came with Gruden on the sideline.

So why is McKay considered a strong talent evaluator, while Allen is portrayed as a paper pusher?

One factor is the way they handle media chores. McKay is likable and mostly accessible. Allen is condescending and usually unavailable. Fair or not, it colors their coverage.

Think of it this way:

What if another GM had accomplished what Allen had this season? What if another GM signed Greg White out of the Arena Football League? What if another GM plugged Donald Penn in at left tackle or Jovan Haye at defensive tackle? What if another GM had the NFL's youngest offensive line protecting one of the league's oldest quarterbacks?

If we're being honest, that GM would be hailed as a miracle worker.

Tampa Bay's turnaround from last season is a credit to Gruden's skills. It is a testament to Garcia's talent at quarterback. It is, in part, a function of good fortune.

But the time has come to acknowledge that it is also a product of Allen and the rest of the front office.

The typical turnover on a 53-man roster is about 13 or 14 players a year. When the Bucs clinched the NFC South on Sunday, they had 22 players who were not on the active roster last season.

Taking it a little further, 10 of their 22 starters were acquired in the past 14 months. That's an astounding amount of turnover for a team that just clinched a division title. And the Bucs did it without overextending themselves on the free-agent market or coming close to filling up their salary cap.

In other words, the general manager did his job.

And did it better than most.

[TrackStar]

Amen.

[Lil Ze']

I'm still trying to find what Allen did that was so special? I'll give him credit for the offensive line and that is about it.

[TrackStar]

...

[Lil Ze']

He didn't bring in White or Garcia. Gruden did. So what did he do that was so hard? Sign them?

[TrackStar]

gruden and allan have done good things. they are a good TEAM.

The bucs are going ot be very good for years to come. They have alot of good youth on the team.

[John]

I'm still trying to find what Allen did that was so special? I'll give him credit for the offensive line and that is about it.

What Allen did that was so special was save this team from certain salary cap failures after McKay had signed so many HUGE contracts. He'll never get the proper credit for that, he easily saved the franchise 2-3 years of bottom of the division play by clearing cap hurdles. Allen is also responsible for the Joey Galloway trade IIRC, which has worked out pretty well from what I've heard.

This is far from anything resembling Dungy's team anymore.

[truffle_shuffle!]

He didn't bring in White or Garcia. Gruden did. So what did he do that was so hard? Sign them?

Why you gotta be a hater so much???

Gruden wanted the guys.. Bruce Allen signed them. Gruden didn't bring them in... Allen did and showed them the money.

[J-Dizzle]

What Allen did that was so special was save this team from certain salary cap failures after McKay had signed so many HUGE contracts. He'll never get the proper credit for that, he easily saved the franchise 2-3 years of bottom of the division play by clearing cap hurdles. Allen is also responsible for the Joey Galloway trade IIRC, which has worked out pretty well from what I've heard.

This is far from anything resembling Dungy's team anymore.

+1

[TrackStar]

I love the bucs fans that are so negative they will bash the front office/coaches no matter what...

[Lil Ze']

Why you gotta be a hater so much???

Gruden wanted the guys.. Bruce Allen signed them. Gruden didn't bring them in... Allen did and showed them the money.
There is no hate here. I just don't see what he did. White was on Gruden's brothers team. Gruden brought him. How hard is it to sign an Arena player? Gruden also brought in Garcia. He wanted to come here. He had maybe one other chance to start somewhere else. It wasn't that hard of a job to sign someone who wants to play here. I'll give him credit on the O line. Lets not forget that Allen resigned Simms to sit on the bench and waste cap space. If this team gets past the 2nd round of the NFC playoffs, then I'll shut my mouth. I love the Bucs fans that are naive and just go on what the press says.

[TrackStar]

Your an idiot. It would of been a horrable PR move to not resign Chris Simms when the public perception is that he nearly gave his life for the team. Of course they resigned him, and its not a waste of cap space when they are sitting 30 million under the cap. Its also not a waste of money when they are rich as fuck and may of lost money not resigning him due to boycotting by fans.

[rainmkr]

Don't worry most fans hate their teams' front office...

[Lil Ze']

Your an idiot. It would of been a horrable PR move to not resign Chris Simms when the public perception is that he nearly gave his life for the team. Of course they resigned him, and its not a waste of cap space when they are sitting 30 million under the cap. Its also not a waste of money when they are rich as fuck and may of lost money not resigning him due to boycotting by fans. I don't give a shit. Its the business of football. They wouldn't have lost one cent. Joey Porter the face of the Steelers was cut this offseason. Seems like they really lost a lot of money doing that. Not. Cuts like that are made all the time. Same thing happened with Ty Law. Its the business of football. two-years, $14.5 million dollar contract to sit on the bench for the next two years seems like a loss to me. And they're 22.3 under the cap not 30.

[John]

Simms was resigned to keep him from going to division rivals that are without QB's. (Falcons, Panthers(?)). I'd rather us pay him to ride the pine than some other team pay him to beat us. Consider how well Simms knows our offensive scheme, and then consider how much depth there is available in the QB market. A hint on the last one - 44 year old Testeverde was lured out of retirement by the Panthers this season. When you have that much cap room to give, it makes a LOT of sense

[J-Dizzle]

- 44 year old Testeverde was lured out of retirement by the Panthers this season. When you have that much cap room to give, it makes a LOT of sense


David Carr just sucks that bad. Now with Vinny hurt, they're starting Matt Moore :lol:

[truffle_shuffle!]

David Carr just sucks that bad. Now with Vinny hurt, they're starting Matt Moore :lol:

Suprised they didn't call in Steve DeBerg lol

[TrackStar]

Simms was resigned to keep him from going to division rivals that are without QB's. (Falcons, Panthers(?)). I'd rather us pay him to ride the pine than some other team pay him to beat us. Consider how well Simms knows our offensive scheme, and then consider how much depth there is available in the QB market. A hint on the last one - 44 year old Testeverde was lured out of retirement by the Panthers this season. When you have that much cap room to give, it makes a LOT of sense
don't use common sense on him...

I don't give a shit. Its the business of football. They wouldn't have lost one cent. Joey Porter the face of the Steelers was cut this offseason. Seems like they really lost a lot of money doing that. Not. Cuts like that are made all the time. Same thing happened with Ty Law. Its the business of football. two-years, $14.5 million dollar contract to sit on the bench for the next two years seems like a loss to me. And they're 22.3 under the cap not 30.

How are any of those examples the same as the situation with Simms? durrrrr...

p.s. theyll be 30 million under next year, but 22.3 now is still irrelevant.

[Lil Ze']

Two very popular members of two different teams, one of them being the face of the defense/team. Did it effect any thing what so ever? No. That was your argument. Who cares if he goes to a rival? He will most likely never be right again. Next year will be the same story. He would be the same player on both those teams. And that was an avg at best QB. And you're right 22 is not relevant since we're talking about this years cap and not next. Good god you're dumb.

[TrackStar]

you lose. good job.

My point about simms had to do with public perception. He was injured badly and nearly lost his life. Those other players had nothing close to that happen to them. Those other players also were not faces of the franchise, every team loses big free agents, thats normal. Completely different from the simms situation.

And the point that was made about him going to other teams was that he knows our offense well and those teams would pick him up if just for that reason.

you r teh dumb. keep saying dumb things. with your dumb mouth. you dumb ass.


dumby.

[John]

Two very popular members of two different teams, one of them being the face of the defense/team.

Theres a huge difference between defensive backs and quarterbacks. If Porter was the face of the defense, there's a lot of upset Troy Polamalu fans out there right now...

Did it effect any thing what so ever? No. That was your argument. Who cares if he goes to a rival?

Uh, the Bucs do, along with the other 3 teams in their division, and pretty much the entire NFL as a whole. Suppose the Falcon's had a "at best avg QB", would the Bucs still be 9-5? We were basically given 2 victories by the Falcons, victories that helped us seal the division title

There's an outright shortage in the NFL of quarterbacks, especially those with any NFL experience. Simms is a very valuable commodity, even in a back up role.

He will most likely never be right again.

So you're a doctor now?

Next year will be the same story. He would be the same player on both those teams.

no, wait, scratch that, now he's a fortune teller!

And that was an avg at best QB. And you're right 22 is not relevant since we're talking about this years cap and not next. Good god you're dumb.

And then you resort to sophomoric jabs at a person's intelligence :lol: what are you, 12 years old? There's a LOT of teams that have below average quarterbacks that would like to have Simms... and there's a few teams out there that would LOVE to have Simms.

[TrackStar]

there you go again... bringing logic into this... thats just not fair.

[Bucsfan]

Boston sits here and tells us that Allen is stupid for resigning Simms, yet wasn't he bagging on Allen for letting go of Lynch and not resigning Sapp (who was the face of the defense, like Porter was to the Steelers)?

If that's not right, then nevermind.

[Lil Ze']

Theres a huge difference between defensive backs and quarterbacks. If Porter was the face of the defense, there's a lot of upset Troy Polamalu fans out there right now...



Uh, the Bucs do, along with the other 3 teams in their division, and pretty much the entire NFL as a whole. Suppose the Falcon's had a "at best avg QB", would the Bucs still be 9-5? We were basically given 2 victories by the Falcons, victories that helped us seal the division title

There's an outright shortage in the NFL of quarterbacks, especially those with any NFL experience. Simms is a very valuable commodity, even in a back up role.



So you're a doctor now?



no, wait, scratch that, now he's a fortune teller!



And then you resort to sophomoric jabs at a person's intelligence :lol: what are you, 12 years old? There's a LOT of teams that have below average quarterbacks that would like to have Simms... and there's a few teams out there that would LOVE to have Simms.
So your argument is Simms could have started for Atlanta or Carolina or even the Saints? Lets analyze this since I have not 1, but 3 people on my shit.
Carolina had 2 Qbs, they wouldn't have wasted their time on Simms especially with him being seriously injured and having arm problems. Atlanta, maybe. But even then who cares? Atlanta sucks and they would be right where they are now with or without Simms. Again he wouldn't have started this year anyways. New Orleans has Brees. End of story. Simms could have gone to any of the three and would not effect us this year or probably next. Seeing as he is an average, injury prone QB who can't win the big games. As for effecting the franchise I meant as towards sales and revenues. Porter was the face of that defense, so is Polamalu. Porters jerseys sold more and he was always in the news. I don't have to be a doctor to know what injury prone is. Simms has been the same player since college. You think he'll just magically change? Atlanta thought that about Harrington.:lmao:
Boston sits here and tells us that Allen is stupid for resigning Simms, yet wasn't he bagging on Allen for letting go of Lynch and not resigning Sapp (who was the face of the defense, like Porter was to the Steelers)?

If that's not right, then nevermind.
No. I've always said Sapp blows. Lynch was just a dumb decision on the Bucs part because he was fine to play and had 2 or 3 pro bowl seasons after leaving.

[truffle_shuffle!]

No. I've always said Sapp blows. Lynch was just a dumb decision on the Bucs part because he was fine to play and had 2 or 3 pro bowl seasons after leaving.

I disagree with you strongly with John Lynch. He was old and comming off some injuries. Their comes a time when you have to move players so others can come up. If you sign a Safety over 30, comming of several injuries , to a multi year deal you don't deserve to be a GM.

I mean I love John Lynch, but come on man. You HAVE to let shit like that go.

[Bucsfan]

No. I've always said Sapp blows. Lynch was just a dumb decision on the Bucs part because he was fine to play and had 2 or 3 pro bowl seasons after leaving.

If Lynch was still here, there would not have been as glaring a need at safety as there was last season. In that regard, I don't think we would have drafted Tanard Jackson... whom obviously has a much brighter future than Lynch does.

He was coming off a severe neck injury. It could very well have played out like Simeon Rice.

When it all boils down to it, Lynch didn't want to compete with Phillips for the starting job.

I was as big a fan of John Lynch as anybody else and was sad to see him go. Heck, I dragged my girlfriend out with me to his going away ceremony at Channelside. But that doesn't mean I don't think it wasn't the right move now that we're in the situation we are now.

[John]

So your argument is Simms could have started for Atlanta or Carolina or even the Saints? Lets analyze this since I have not 1, but 3 people on my shit.
Carolina had 2 Qbs, they wouldn't have wasted their time on Simms especially with him being seriously injured and having arm problems.

Depth. Apparently, you're not familiar with it, but its something you need b/c sometimes injuries force you to play somebody else. Like say, Delhomme in Carolina got injured... and they had SO much depth at QB... who was it again that was playing for them? Jack Palance? No, thats good ole Testeverde... 86 years young yesterday. From what I hear that worked out pretty well for them...

Atlanta, maybe. But even then who cares? Atlanta sucks and they would be right where they are now with or without Simms. Again he wouldn't have started this year anyways.

you wouldnt have started Simms over Harrington? I wouldn't have even SIGNED Harrington. I don't even know who the QB WAS for them last week...

New Orleans has Brees. End of story. Simms could have gone to any of the three and would not effect us this year or probably next. Seeing as he is an average, injury prone QB who can't win the big games.

Maybe my memory is a bit fuzzy, but I only recall Simms getting hurt once. I could very well be wrong. Can't win the big games eh? You mean, like the Redskins thriller, where Alstott converted the 2 to win the game?

As for effecting the franchise I meant as towards sales and revenues. Porter was the face of that defense, so is Polamalu. Porters jerseys sold more and he was always in the news.

So you can have two faces now? Porter was always in the news... well thats right, and THATS why he's no longer in Pittsburgh. Could you post a link to the jersey statistics? I couldn't find it anywhere.

I don't have to be a doctor to know what injury prone is. Simms has been the same player since college. You think he'll just magically change? Atlanta thought that about Harrington.:lmao:


a ruptured spleen is nothing that can be prevented, we call those fluke injuries.

[Lil Ze']

Depth. Apparently, you're not familiar with it, but its something you need b/c sometimes injuries force you to play somebody else. Like say, Delhomme in Carolina got injured... and they had SO much depth at QB... who was it again that was playing for them? Jack Palance? No, thats good ole Testeverde... 86 years young yesterday. From what I hear that worked out pretty well for them...



you wouldnt have started Simms over Harrington? I wouldn't have even SIGNED Harrington. I don't even know who the QB WAS for them last week...



Maybe my memory is a bit fuzzy, but I only recall Simms getting hurt once. I could very well be wrong. Can't win the big games eh? You mean, like the Redskins thriller, where Alstott converted the 2 to win the game?



So you can have two faces now? Porter was always in the news... well thats right, and THATS why he's no longer in Pittsburgh. Could you post a link to the jersey statistics? I couldn't find it anywhere.



a ruptured spleen is nothing that can be prevented, we call those fluke injuries.
Why would you sign an injury prone QB with no Spleen and a recurring arm injury for depth? Yes lets talk about that Redskins game. He had one good game then tanked when the game really mattered against them in the playoffs. And with Carolina. You're on the what if game. They had 2 healthy QBs. Who will both be back next year. So you think they were going to add Simms to start over Delhomme? Seeing as Simms was hurt before either of them were hurt. I wouldn't have signed Simms or Harrington because they're both garbage who will be out of the league in under 5 years. I would have kept Lynch and still brought in both Jackson and Phillips. Lynch could have helped Phillips mature a lot quicker than he has. Its taken him 5 years to actually become a well rounded safety. I think Lynch would have helped him speed that along. I would have kept him 2-3 more years and thats it. Its all opinions anyways. So whatever. I've let all the bullshit Allen has done go. I just don't see what he did that was special.

[Bucsfan]

I've let all the bullshit Allen has done go. I just don't see what he did that was special.

Fair enough, but could you entertain me by stating other GMs that have done as good a job as you want?

And don't say New England's GM. Everyone aspires to be the Patriots and it's not gonna happen for every team. They are a once in a generation team.

[Lil Ze']

Lol you got me there.

I think Green Bay's GM did one hell of job evaluating all that young talent and making it work on both sides of the ball. New England of course being my favorite.