Where do you stand at this time?

[HullBreach]

Well, given todays developments within the GOP and things being nearly stalemated on the DNC side. I thought it might be interesting to poll others as to where they stand given the current circumstances.

[Elohim]

I'm not a felon. I maintain that if any of these individuals get in it makes no difference who you vote for so I'll vote for a 3rd party candidate.

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

I won't vote for McCain. I won't vote for a democrat either. So it looks like I'm going third party or abstaining.

[buck19]

Quacks and gimmicks.

[SilentBob86]

write in.

[jabtay]

i went for #2. I dont like McCain, but I like him a tad more than the other shitty candidates.

[HullBreach]

Yeah, were definately having another go at the Turd Sandwich / Giant Douche elections.

[Bucsfan]

Anybody but Clinton.

[Kryptix]

CLinton, CLinton, Clinton!!!! :lol:

[buck19]

Kryptix, you're nuts. She wants to make citizen paid health care mandatory. I barely make enough to pay taxes. Last couple of years I haven't paid out because every last bit went into living expenses. And more into her health care plan. She will penalize those that do not get health care coverage. Hmmmm. Whose side is she on???

[25psi]

i went for #2. I dont like McCain, but I like him a tad more than the other shitty candidates.
I know "conservatives" don't like McCain but I think they will be motivated to vote for him if Billary is the nominee.

[Kryptix]

Kryptix, you're nuts. She wants to make citizen paid health care mandatory. I barely make enough to pay taxes. Last couple of years I haven't paid out because every last bit went into living expenses. And more into her health care plan. She will penalize those that do not get health care coverage. Hmmmm. Whose side is she on???

You think I don't know this? I want universal health care. How will she penalize people who don't get health care coverage? Please use a valid source. Clinton will be good for the economy, national security, environment, education and health. Those are reasons for which candidate I chose. Those are reasons why I want her to win. Her healthcare plan lowers the cost of healthcare making it affordable. McCain is more of the same that we have had, but a continuation of the wreckless, ill-concieved war on terror. McCain is dangerous.

[uyht]

clinton ftw

[buck19]

You think I don't know this? I want universal health care. How will she penalize people who don't get health care coverage? Please use a valid source. Clinton will be good for the economy, national security, environment, education and health. Those are reasons for which candidate I chose. Those are reasons why I want her to win. Her healthcare plan lowers the cost of healthcare making it affordable. McCain is more of the same that we have had, but a continuation of the wreckless, ill-concieved war on terror. McCain is dangerous.

WMNF/NPR...

The only way to drop the price on health care is to mandate it. Read up on her plans. It's kinda of the same when you get pulled over in Florida without car insurance... Think about it.

[Kryptix]

WMNF/NPR...

The only way to drop the price on health care is to mandate it. Read up on her plans. It's kinda of the same when you get pulled over in Florida without car insurance... Think about it.

Please use links when you cite sources. I'm gonna read up but I'll be waiting for some links from ya. ;)

[buck19]

Please use links when you cite sources. I'm gonna read up but I'll be waiting for some links from ya. ;)

http://www.hillaryclinton.com/feature/healthcareplan/americanhealthchoicesplan.pdf

It will be taken from your paycheck and the business you work for looks like will be taxed too.

All Americans will have it through more taxes.

It's on her website

[buck19]

P.S. How else are you going to pay for 47million people?

[Josh]

http://www.hillaryclinton.com/feature/healthcareplan/americanhealthchoicesplan.pdf

It will be taken from your paycheck and the business you work for looks like will be taxed too.

All Americans will have it through more taxes.

It's on her website

that's what's really horrible - they are dinging small businesses and they will feel this the most. that absolutely sucks ass.

[buck19]

that's what's really horrible - they are dinging small businesses and they will feel this the most. that absolutely sucks ass.


mmhhmm. And that is who I have ever worked for. Small business.

And I finally figured out where the job boom is creating employment. Defense contractors. Lockheed is hiring 50 people over capacity in their PPark facility. Not that more jobs is a bad things, but the money that is being invested by Bush has absolutely no backing. It's just paper credit with nothing solid behind it but a weak promise.

[Kryptix]

You guys have no idea what you're talking about. Small bussinesses will be given tax incentives to continue or start giving health coverage. Not pay higher taxes.

[HullBreach]

You guys have no idea what you're talking about. Small bussinesses will be given tax incentives to continue or start giving health coverage. Not pay higher taxes.

So who's going to pay for this shit then? Chirst, Exxon Mobil already pays taxes at a 41% rate (more in actual dollars than the lower 52% of Americans COMBINED), so don't tell me big buisiness.

Theres a reason companies are moving overseas, and jacking up corporate taxes is just going to further encourage that.

[Kryptix]

So who's going to pay for this shit then? Chirst, Exxon Mobil already pays taxes at a 41% rate (more in actual dollars than the lower 52% of Americans COMBINED), so don't tell me big buisiness.

Theres a reason companies are moving overseas, and jacking up corporate taxes is just going to further encourage that.
Quit painting a bad picture when you don't know how it works. Looks like a good plan to me. Lowering costs of healthcare and increasing the quality. Allowing people to be able to choose their own doctors and stick with their own plans. She plans to do all this and balance the budget and increase the economy that's why I vote for her.


To help pay for the plan, Clinton would also eliminate the Bush tax cuts for those making over $250,000 and limit the amount employers can exclude from taxes for health care benefits paid for those making over $250,000.

Under Clinton's plan, Americans would be offered the same health care benefits of private health care plans offered to Congress through the federal employee benefits program as well as a public program similar to Medicare.

Americans satisfied with their current coverage will be allowed to keep it, the Clinton campaign said.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/09/17/health.care/index.html

[25psi]

Quit painting a bad picture when you don't know how it works. Looks like a good plan to me. Lowering costs of healthcare and increasing the quality. Allowing people to be able to choose their own doctors and stick with their own plans. She plans to do all this and balance the budget and increase the economy that's why I vote for her.


http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/09/17/health.care/index.html
There are two things that Socialist Healthcare definantly doesn't do, lower the price and increase the quality.

[HullBreach]

Quit painting a bad picture when you don't know how it works. Looks like a good plan to me. Lowering costs of healthcare and increasing the quality. Allowing people to be able to choose their own doctors and stick with their own plans. She plans to do all this and balance the budget and increase the economy that's why I vote for her.


http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/09/17/health.care/index.html

Well hell Kryptix, I promise to shit magical fairy dust if you vote for me. That doesn't mean its going to happen.

The truth is that in every country where socialized health care has been enacted the overall number of dollars spent on said care has gone up, while the quality of care has plummeted. Look at the UK where they have patients dying beacause basic sanitary procedures arent being followed. Look at the Canadians coming across the border to the US to bypass insane waiting lists for things like root canals.

For that matter, name one thing the government does better than private industry!

[Topless T/A]

For that matter, name one thing the government does better than private industry!

Take away guns and raise taxes!!!

[jabtay]

How will she penalize people who don't get health care coverage? Please use a valid source. Clinton stated in the debate, “we will have an enforcement mechanism.” This would mean that she would penalize people if they did not go along with the plan.http://www.dbtechno.com/health/2008/02/06/clinton-still-not-clear-on-stance-on-health-care/

Clinton said that "we will have an enforcement mechanism, whether it's that or it's some other mechanism through the tax system or automatic enrollments" (Sack, New York Times, 2/4). Clinton explained she believes "there are a number of mechanisms" that could work including "going after people's wages." Clinton also said that the enforcement mechanism would apply only to residents who can afford health insurance but refuse to purchase coverage, adding that, with her proposals for subsidies, "it will be affordable for everyone"
http://www.kaisernetwork.org/daily_reports/health2008dr.cfm?DR_ID=50197

so what i want to know is where is that line where she thinks people can afford health insurance?

[buck19]

You guys have no idea what you're talking about. Small bussinesses will be given tax incentives to continue or start giving health coverage. Not pay higher taxes.

Up to 'X' amount. After that the business is responsible. Same with U.S. citizens.

You have mandated health care. This is supposed to be designed for the lower income brackets. So lets say you are making the average $30k/yr. Now you're taking home about 20g after taxes. That's, for the most part these days, no enough to live off of unless you are homeless and couch surfing. Only a small percentage of you taxes are going to go to health care. After you break out of that small percentage, that this system is designed for, it will begin to come out of your pocket. The only thing this covers, monetarily, is preventative health care, but people get sick still. Once you're sick you are still left to pay for your own "affordable medication". She says "affordable medication," which only means we are left to buy our own meds.

It's like giving a slice of bread to a starving child.

[jabtay]

Take away guns and raise taxes!!!
You speak the truth!

[buck19]

http://www.dbtechno.com/health/2008/02/06/clinton-still-not-clear-on-stance-on-health-care/


http://www.kaisernetwork.org/daily_reports/health2008dr.cfm?DR_ID=50197

so what i want to know is where is that line where she thinks people can afford health insurance?

Can we get a round of applause?!?!?!

I've been trying to find that info but wasn't using the right search words I guess. I did, however, notice how their were a number of correlations between Clintrons health plan and other floundering socialized plans that are one in the same.

[Joe]

Looks like a good plan to me. Lowering costs of healthcare and increasing the quality.

Show me ONE government run health care system that HAS done EITHER of these.

There are MANY choices to review. Let us know when you find one...

[buck19]

Show me ONE government run health care system that HAS done EITHER of these.

There are MANY choices to review. Let us know when you find one...

There is only one true way to get it done. Increase the value of the dollar... :-o

[uyht]

its funny yall all knock universal health care but offer no solution.

Is the solution for each person to find their own private insurance. Heck thats awsome if you have no problems. What about once you do have real medical issues and you get dropped now you have no insurance and a preexisiting condition.

Buisnesses are moving away from offering health care, they have already moved to high deductable plans but we see a bunch telling their employees that the employee will get a x amount raise a month but no more health care, they have to find it on their own.

I agree "socialized" health care has its problems but it has also been sucessfu in some cases. Look at the Army. I was a medic in the army and my dad was a doctor in the army so I am aware its not perfect, but it is better than have such a large % of our populace uninsured.

While I agree there is no perfect solution, the solution is not to wait until the perfect one comes along. Even if Hillary gets elected(which i truly hope she does) she will have one hell of a time getting anything past the insurance/pharmacy companies lobbists.

Why do we pay more for medicine and treatment than any other country?

[Zealot]

I agree "socialized" health care has its problems but it has also been sucessfu in some cases. Look at the Army. I was a medic in the army and my dad was a doctor in the army so I am aware its not perfect, but it is better than have such a large % of our populace uninsured.

Have we forgotten the recent VA debacles?

[uyht]

Have we forgotten the recent VA debacles?

Absolutly not. As I stated there are mistakes made in every system. There are mistakes made when people pay for care. I believe Kayne Wests mother would agree with me on that.

But for every bad shitty thing that happens at least we know they are trying to help some folks. Read the below it is one of many articles outlining the problems with not having insurance.

http://www.childrensdefense.org/site/DocServer/InHarmsWay.pdf?docID=3961CDF

[billybongthorton]

i know every time a politician opens his or her mouth, its bullshit. i dont really care i still want dmx for pres. that nigga real

[buck19]

i know every time a politician opens his or her mouth, its bullshit. i dont really care i still want dmx for pres. that nigga real

Isn't it funny when a politician doesn't preach any complex plans or talk a whole lot of bullshit and just speak the truth about the actual root of the issue and they get labeled crazy?

[billybongthorton]

Isn't it funny when a politician doesn't preach any complex plans or talk a whole lot of bullshit and just speak the truth about the actual root of the issue and they get labeled crazy?

no ill vote for a president when a candidate has the balls to cut foreign ai and work on our domestic problems and stay out of everyones business. as Americans we are too reliant on foreign products and services. when uou call like aol or something its going to be a foreign dude or chick. i gurantee you put those jobs over here more welfare crack babies would have a job and not be outsourced by a towel head or mexican

[xowagm]

ok i like McCain, but I really think that people are looking over Ron Paul. I like him as a Republican Candidate instead.

[uyht]

no ill vote for a president when a candidate has the balls to cut foreign ai and work on our domestic problems and stay out of everyones business. as Americans we are too reliant on foreign products and services. when uou call like aol or something its going to be a foreign dude or chick. i gurantee you put those jobs over here more welfare crack babies would have a job and not be outsourced by a towel head or mexican

Do you shop at walmart? Do you buy anything? Where were they manufactured? Do you only buy american made products? Americans demand low prices and go to any leangth to get the best deal available. How do you think all this happened. Company A said I can sell the same product company b has for 5 cents cheaper if I off shore manufacturing. The consumer then buys company b's product forcing company A to do the same to compete.

We created the problem. Not some mythical goverment thing in the sky. The american consumer is just as Culpable as anyone.

[buck19]

Do you shop at walmart? Do you buy anything? Where were they manufactured? Do you only buy american made products? Americans demand low prices and go to any leangth to get the best deal available. How do you think all this happened. Company A said I can sell the same product company b has for 5 cents cheaper if I off shore manufacturing. The consumer then buys company b's product forcing company A to do the same to compete.

We created the problem. Not some mythical goverment thing in the sky. The american consumer is just as Culpable as anyone.

Inflation creates the issue. Bargaining and competing is what's keeping the dollar from going completely bankrupt. Why are you spending $1.45 for a 20oz Pepsi when it cost $.75 not even ten years ago. Same with gas.

[TrackStar]

I mean Huckabee, because he looks like Nixon. How awesome is that? He'll be a great president and then get kicked out cause the morons under him screwed up behind his back. It'll be great T.V. and our country will get run well for a few years! :D

[Aoshi]

I Am Not A Criminal!

[dan]

tricky dick


now sheisty mike. lol.


brrrlrllblblblrlrlrlrlrlrlblblbh

[KuJoe]

Close but no cigar, you're looking for the area below this. :nono: