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View Full Version : How Liberal Fascism is trying to control your life from the cradle to the grave.


Scott
02-20-2008, 02:21 PM
Good read.

Thoughts from the other side ?


Amazon.com: Liberal Fascism: The Secret History of the American Left, From Mussolini to the Politics of Meaning: Books: Jonah Goldberg

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31hln2qFpWL._SS500_.jpg


How Liberal Fascism is trying to control your life from the cradle to the grave.

The facts your liberal friends need to hear
By Jonah Goldberg

Liberals, perhaps more than anyone, believe that we should be vigilant against the threat of fascism. Now, they also believe that fascism can only come from the Right--I think they're wrong. But, what liberals - and everyone else - very much need to understand is that whatever direction fascism comes from, it's popular. Fascism succeeds in democratic countries because it convinces people that it's the wave of the future, it's progressive, it's young, it's vital, it's exciting. Fascist promise to fix what's broken in our democracy, to heal our wounds, to deliver us to promised lands. So if you think fascism comes from the Right, fine. But at least keep in mind that it won't sell itself as dull, or uptight, or old-fashioned.

Let me take a moment to give you a concrete sense of what I mean.

Fascism appealed to youth activists. Indeed, the Nazis and Fascists were in major respects youth movements. In 1931, 60 percent of all German undergraduates supported the Nazi Student Organization. "Their goal," the historian John Toland wrote of the young idealists who fed the Nazi rise to power, "was to establish a youth culture for fighting the bourgeois trinity of school, home and church."

Meanwhile, middle and lower class Germans were attracted to the economic and cultural populism of Nazism. The Nazi party began as the German Worker's Party. The Nazis economic rhetoric was eerily similar to John Edwards "Two Americas" talk. The Nazis promised to clamp down on Big Business - particularly department stores, the Wal-Marts of their day - and end the class struggle. Theodore Abel, an impressively clever American sociologist, gives us insight into why working class Germans were attracted to Nazism. In 1934 Abel took out an ad in the Nazi Party journal asking "old fighters" to submit essays explaining why they had joined. He restricted his request to "old fighters" because so many opportunists had joined the party after Hitler's rise. The essays were combined in the fascinating book Why Hitler Came Into Power. One essayist, a coal miner, explained "Though I was interested in the betterment of the workingman's plight, I rejected [Marxism] unconditionally. I often asked myself why socialism had to be tied up with internationalism-why it could not work as well or better in conjunction with nationalism." A railroad worker concurred, "I shuddered at the thought of Germany in the grip of Bolshevism. The slogan 'Workers of the World Unite!' made no sense to me. At the same time, however, National Socialism, with its promise of a community . . . barring all class struggle, attracted me profoundly." A third worker wrote that he embraced the Nazis because of their "uncompromising will to stamp out the class struggle, snobberies of caste and party hatreds. The movement bore the true message of socialism to the German workingman."

Nazism's appeal to the professional classes was just as strong. Raymond Dominick, a historian specializing in the history of German environmentalism, found that by 1939, 59 percent of conservationist leaders had joined the Nazi party, while only 10 percent of adult males had. Forty five percent of medical doctors had joined and roughly one quarter of teachers and lawyers had. The two groups of professionals with the highest rates of participation in the Nazi Party? Veterinarians were first and foresters were a close second. Dominick found a "unique nexus between National Socialism and nature conservation."

The Nazis and Italian Fascists won-over big business, cultural elites, the youth and the lower-classes because they portrayed themselves as heroically on the side of progress, protecting the environment and the poor. Fascists preached unity, togetherness and an end to division.

Liberals need to ask themselves where do they hear this rhetoric the most?

I'm not saying that merely being for the environment, the poor or national unity makes you a fascist. But what I am saying is that if you're concerned about spotting fascism on the horizon you can't just look at people you don't like. That's like only looking for your lost car keys where the light is good. Huey Long reportedly said that if Fascism comes to America it will be called "anti-Fascism." Liberals can still make their arguments that fascism comes from the right. But until they understand that wherever fascism may come from, it never arrives save in a form that the best and the brightest are willing to accept with open arms.

And if liberals don't know their history, they won't be equipped to spot it when it comes knocking.

HullBreach
02-20-2008, 02:38 PM
Picking a copy up this weekend. I just finished Glen Beck's "An Inconvienient Book" which was a really good read, and this ones been highly recommended.

BUDO
02-20-2008, 02:39 PM
His last name and satiric portrayal of Adolf Hitler accredit him a suspicion of bias.

DSG
02-20-2008, 02:43 PM
Picking a copy up this weekend. I just finished Glen Beck's "An Inconvienient Book" which was a really good read, and this ones been highly recommended.

I am about through with that book right now. I will read Goldbergs book next.

Scott
02-20-2008, 02:44 PM
His last name and satiric portrayal of Adolf Hitler accredit him a suspicion of bias.


Shall I guess who put that out there ?

Read it for yourself and make the determination on your own.

BUDO
02-20-2008, 02:51 PM
Read it for yourself and make the determination on your own.

I am not knocking his treatise and I am willing to give it a read, but in all honesty, I have the presentiment that it is the pot calling the kettle black.

HullBreach
02-20-2008, 02:54 PM
I am not knocking his treatise and I am willing to give it a read, but in all honesty, I have the presentiment that it is the pot calling the kettle black.

You realize that said presentiment is essentially proof of the theory put forward in the book right?

And whats wrong with the guys name? Or is this another one of those crazy zionist conspiricies that us right-leaning types are supposedly in on.

Scott
02-20-2008, 02:57 PM
You realize that said presentiment is essentially proof of the theory put forward in the book right?

.



Good point. :lol:

BUDO
02-20-2008, 02:58 PM
You realize that said presentiment is essentially proof of the theory put forward in the book right?

And whats wrong with the guys name? Or is this another one of those crazy zionist conspiricies that us right-leaning types are supposedly in on.

No, my presentiment is proof that I circumspectly proceed into things, nothing more. Since you know what the book is about I am assuming you have read it. Please enlighten me.

The name thing was a joke.

BUDO
02-20-2008, 03:05 PM
Good point. :lol:

So my presentiment that this book is a right wing guy bashing the left wing for the same tactics and follies employed by the right wing is spot on? Man I saved myself some reading!

Don't get me wrong I in no way shape or form endorse the left.

DSG
02-20-2008, 03:16 PM
I have not read the book but plan to, however it was presented to me that Goldberg is a lefty telling the rest of the leftys how fucked up they are. I may be wrong though???

Tripw0l
02-20-2008, 04:13 PM
lol, I can't believe the amount of cognitive dissonance coming out of right-wing. This is the perfect example of the pot calling the kettle black. If the guy were even taking a moderate stance and saying "well you should look in places other than just the right-wing to watch out for facism". That's like saying "I stole your wallet but you should still keep looking for it". The Republican controlled administration has been completely responsible for warrantless wire-tapping, overall increase in surveillance, increased levels of patriotic zealotry, suppressing opposition to their desired policies and generally building a totalitarian govt. which is one of the main ingredients to facism.

Look at all the factors of a facist government: patriotism, nationalism, statism, militarism, totalitarianism, anti-communism, corporatism, populism, collectivism, autocracy and opposition to political and economic liberalism.

If you look at each one of those and compare them with the ACTIONS of the administration, you'd probably see Republicans are at a much higher risk of leading to facism than Democrats. I could address each of those characteristics individually but it'd take a long time and I feel like I'd be wasting it because no matter what none of the right-wingers on this board will give it any credence and will just mark it as "Bush bashing" and leave the thread to die. This is part of the reason why I fucking hate discussing partisan issues on this board, it always turns to finger pointing and blowing raspberries at each other.

The author is probably a smart guy but ultimately is DEAD WRONG from what I've read in the synopsis. That's my stance on it, thanks.

truffle_shuffle!
02-20-2008, 04:22 PM
Great read ....

Check out this interview of Jonah with Jon Stewart.... he butcherd the interview because you know he hated the answers he was getting.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=147884&title=jonah-goldberg

Tripw0l
02-20-2008, 05:06 PM
Great read ....

Check out this interview of Jonah with Jon Stewart.... he butcherd the interview because you know he hated the answers he was getting.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=147884&title=jonah-goldberg

lol, I like how well you can frame that to suit your bias. Congrats. Stewart is another incredibly smart guy and will argue his points as well so they had a back and forth that was probably genuinely too long for the guest segment. If you look at his appearance on Crossfire he and Tucker Carlson went at it and Stewart got pretty pissed and nothing other than bickering developed. I completely agree with what Jon's saying and I liked the interview because I actually got a better idea of where Goldberg stands but that doesn't mean I think he's any less wrong.

*edit* Keep in mind that this isn't the first time that the term "progressive" has been demonized. Bill O'Reilly frequently uses the term "secular progressive" to describe liberals but really it can be used to describe anyone who thinks that the system is broken and wants to work towards a government that sucks less */edit*

25psi
02-20-2008, 05:40 PM
lol, I can't believe the amount of cognitive dissonance coming out of right-wing. This is the perfect example of the pot calling the kettle black. If the guy were even taking a moderate stance and saying "well you should look in places other than just the right-wing to watch out for facism". That's like saying "I stole your wallet but you should still keep looking for it". The Republican controlled administration has been completely responsible for warrantless wire-tapping, overall increase in surveillance, increased levels of patriotic zealotry, suppressing opposition to their desired policies and generally building a totalitarian govt. which is one of the main ingredients to facism.

Look at all the factors of a facist government: patriotism, nationalism, statism, militarism, totalitarianism, anti-communism, corporatism, populism, collectivism, autocracy and opposition to political and economic liberalism.

If you look at each one of those and compare them with the ACTIONS of the administration, you'd probably see Republicans are at a much higher risk of leading to facism than Democrats. I could address each of those characteristics individually but it'd take a long time and I feel like I'd be wasting it because no matter what none of the right-wingers on this board will give it any credence and will just mark it as "Bush bashing" and leave the thread to die. This is part of the reason why I fucking hate discussing partisan issues on this board, it always turns to finger pointing and blowing raspberries at each other.

The author is probably a smart guy but ultimately is DEAD WRONG from what I've read in the synopsis. That's my stance on it, thanks.


Jon Stewart always seems like he will try to bounce from point to point when he's talking to someone he disagree's with. If you and Jon Stewart would actually LISTEN to what he has to say, he's trying to explain that the Fascist movement was a NATIONAL SOCIALIST movement. There is little difference between Communism and Fascism, really just differ in means of production.

Teddy Roosevelt was Progressive, and he basically wanted to create and American Empire.

TampaDude
02-20-2008, 05:46 PM
the Fascist movement was a NATIONAL SOCIALIST movement. There is little difference between Communism and Fascism, really just differ in means of production.

WERD...it is a common misconception that the Nazis were a right-wing group...nothing could be further from the truth!

DSG
02-20-2008, 05:53 PM
WERD...it is a common misconception that the Nazis were a right-wing group...nothing could be further from the truth!
This is a great read about just what this thread is about. In Fact the Nazism/Fascism/Liberalism are all very closely intertwined. The attached link goes into great depth about the subject.

http://ray-dox.blogspot.com/2006/05/american-roots-of-fascism-american.html

Tripw0l
02-20-2008, 08:39 PM
Jon Stewart always seems like he will try to bounce from point to point when he's talking to someone he disagree's with. If you and Jon Stewart would actually LISTEN to what he has to say, he's trying to explain that the Fascist movement was a NATIONAL SOCIALIST movement. There is little difference between Communism and Fascism, really just differ in means of production.

Teddy Roosevelt was Progressive, and he basically wanted to create and American Empire.

If you're going to argue semantics then he could at least outline his main point. To me, it seems like he's saying something like Nazism is National Socialism which has many things in common with Liberalism, thus we must be weary of Liberals as America might wind up like Nazi Germany. Which is the biggest crock of shit I've ever heard. If I'm interpreting it wrong, please correct me. Once again, I'm trying to understand his point but I don't think he actually has one and just seems obsessed with somehow framing MODERN liberals as facists.

TampaDude
02-21-2008, 04:19 PM
If you're going to argue semantics then he could at least outline his main point. To me, it seems like he's saying something like Nazism is National Socialism which has many things in common with Liberalism, thus we must be weary of Liberals as America might wind up like Nazi Germany. Which is the biggest crock of shit I've ever heard. If I'm interpreting it wrong, please correct me. Once again, I'm trying to understand his point but I don't think he actually has one and just seems obsessed with somehow framing MODERN liberals as facists.

The ultimate end of modern fiscal liberalism is statism, or "give the government your $$$ because the government knows what's best for you and will take care of you." FUCK THAT SHIT!!!

BAMF
02-21-2008, 04:27 PM
The ultimate end of modern fiscal liberalism is statism, or "give the government your $$$ because the government knows what's best for you and will take care of you." FUCK THAT SHIT!!!

The government can do four big things better than 'you' (you also meaning the private sector).



Levy taxes - yes, they're constitutional and yes, they're necessary. GET OVER IT.

Provide public goods - The private sector doesn't care about public goods, because then they couldn't keep them private

Provide any service or good with a negative RoI - a business won't underatke something its going to lose money on. Its as simple as that.

Keep the private sector in line - businesses will nto adhere to basic safety standards, employment standards, or keep track of the negative externalities they contribute to the country on their own. They must be policed by someone. And the private sector has no tool with which to police them.

Derek
02-21-2008, 04:45 PM
non sequitur much?

Iroc Joe
02-21-2008, 04:50 PM
WERD...it is a common misconception that the Nazis were a right-wing group...nothing could be further from the truth!

Not true. Fascism is the right end of the spectrum in political theory. Fascism assumes the people exist for the good of the state and the state is first and foremost. Contradict that with classic liberalism (small "l" - nothing like today's "liberals") which believes the individual is first and foremost and the state exists only for the benefit of the individual.

BAMF
02-21-2008, 05:04 PM
Not true. Fascism is the right end of the spectrum in political theory. Fascism assumes the people exist for the good of the state and the state is first and foremost. Contradict that with classic liberalism (small "l" - nothing like today's "liberals") which believes the individual is first and foremost and the state exists only for the benefit of the individual.

Shh, don't tell! Ignorance is hilarious!