Its official...

[TrackStar]

Tom Brady is a system Q.B. I swear to god...

Matt Cassel last night:

30-51
400yards
58.8
3 TD's
0 INT's
103.4 QB rating


If theres ever been proof that someone is a system QB, this is it. I don't care what you have to say about how bad you think the jets defense is.

[dan]

im just happy i got a TD out of randy moss for my fantasy team. with 1 second left! ha.

[Niggariffic]

Nah Bellicheck is just the best coach in the league!!

[TrackStar]

wouldnt that fall under 'system' if it were tru?

[Gervais]

I sure am glad I started Cassel last night. Homeboy netted me 42 points. :)

Drew

[Ep41382]

hahahaha... here we go again... calling Lil'Ze....

[TrackStar]

;)

[2MuchDuctTape]

I sure am glad I started Cassel last night. Homeboy netted me 42 points. :)

DrewSame here, 39 points for me in my league :)


A lot of my friends in NE are throwing shit fits beyond belief from that game......"THAT WAS NOT A HOLD!!!!!" :lol:

[fresh&clean]

so because of one game hes now considered a system qb?

[billybongthorton]

tom brady wins games though matt cassel still lost

[TrackStar]

^^Look beyond this one game, I started this conversation earlier in the season. Those who read the other thread know what I'm talken about.

^Matt Cassel didn't lose that game.

[TrackStar]

Name CP/AT YDS TD INT
M. Cassel 30/43 415 3 1


ugh oh...

[billybongthorton]

you think brady is gonna lose his job, thatd be a bitch wouldnt it and ironic cause thats how bledsoe lost his job

[TrackStar]

nah, he wont, but if they are as heartless as they have been in the past then he will lose it. They'd save a lot of salary cap room.

If the bucs don't go to the super bowl, I hope he wins the super bowl and they cut brady for a cheeper version of him.

But yea, think about this... brady was a 6th round pick and cassel was undrafted. Hmmm... you know what, they either have gods in their scouting department or perhaps... THEY ARE SYSTEM Q.B.'s.

I never thought brady was as good as all the fucking talking heads claimed he was.

[moldyhands]

nah, he wont, but if they are as heartless as they have been in the past then he will lose it. They'd save a lot of salary cap room.

If the bucs don't go to the super bowl, I hope he wins the super bowl and they cut brady for a cheeper version of him.

But yea, think about this... brady was a 6th round pick and cassel was undrafted. Hmmm... you know what, they either have gods in their scouting department or perhaps... THEY ARE SYSTEM Q.B.'s.

I never thought brady was as good as all the fucking talking heads claimed he was.i would prefer cassel here in tampa bay. he's younger.

i agree/disagree with your premise that brady's a system QB. i think if you scout properly and you draft a QB with the right intelligence and athletic ability and then, most importantly, YOU SIT HIS ASS ON THE BENCH, for 3-5 years, you'll have a solid, if not great quarterback.

brady did it
romo
steve young

i'm sure if i thought about it, i could elongate that list quite a bit.

[Lil Ze']

I have a feeling the Patriots will try and sign him to use him as trade bait/insurance.

You do realize he had 7 tds and 7 ints before the last two games. He has one of the best slot receivers and if not the best receiver in the league. Its not a surprise that he has had two good games. Your argument about Brady is still fucking stupid. Because he won with nobodies and set records when he has somebodies, I have already proved that. Peyton didn't and neither did a handful of other great QBs. Your system argument is retarded. If you watched Brady play you would actually know what you're talking about, but you don't.

Montana - Drafted in the third round
Theismann - Drafted in the Fourth round
Warren Moon - Undrafted
Fran Tarkenton - Drafted in the third round
Johnny Unitas - 109th pick
Dan Fouts - Drafted in the third round
Romo - Undrafted
Steve Young - Drafted 1st round in the SUPPLEMENTAL DRAFT
Bart Starr - Picked 200th
Farve/Brees - Drafted second round
Warner - Undrafted
Garcia - Undrafted

Seems to me more great QBs come out of the later rounds than great ones do out of the first. How many 1st round bust QBs are there? A lot.

[moldyhands]

good post lil' ze - and a good deal of them rode the pine and learned from other quarterbacks before ever getting the start. MOST rookie QBs never pan out because too much pressure is put upon them before they get a chance to learn.

[25psi]

I think there is alot of merit in the fact that when you have a great offensive line and receivers, a QB has a much better chance of success. You can see now the Cassel is settling into the offense he has become pretty damn effective.


Look at the superbowl, the Giants D-line was effective at getting through the Pats O-line and disrupting the rhythm of the offense, Brady didn't seem MVP-caliber anymore.

[TrackStar]

i would prefer cassel here in tampa bay. he's younger.

i agree/disagree with your premise that brady's a system QB. i think if you scout properly and you draft a QB with the right intelligence and athletic ability and then, most importantly, YOU SIT HIS ASS ON THE BENCH, for 3-5 years, you'll have a solid, if not great quarterback.

brady did it
romo
steve young

i'm sure if i thought about it, i could elongate that list quite a bit.

Brady sat 1 year...

I agree that they should sit in most cases though.

But anyway, I love football. Not just bucs football. I play football, I read football, I watch football, I eat football, I breath football. I know football. I know tom brady. He has gotten better at the little things that make a good Q.B. over the years but he has been the beneficiary of a good system. He is better than matt cassal is but when they were both fresh in the league I'd say they were probably the same, maybe a slight edge to cassal for not being as scrony and weak.

[Lil Ze']

If you think Brady is not an elite QB than you're just skimming through football, not actually watching it.

[TrackStar]

I said hes learned a lot of things during his time, little things, that make a good Q.B. I didn't say he sucked. But face it, he doesn't do to hot under constant pressure. Even Brad Johnson when he was with the bucs did well under constant pressure. Brad Johnson knew how to move around the pocket and do all that shit, he just didnt have the talent nor the system around him. Was Brad Johnson an elite QB? no. And I really don't think Tom Brady is. He is a GOOD QB and you can win games and super bowls with him, but I don't think hes the type that will thrive when he has a bad offensive team around him. An elite QB will thrive with a bad team around him.

[Lil Ze']

I said hes learned a lot of things during his time, little things, that make a good Q.B. I didn't say he sucked. But face it, he doesn't do to hot under constant pressure. Even Brad Johnson when he was with the bucs did well under constant pressure. Brad Johnson knew how to move around the pocket and do all that shit, he just didnt have the talent nor the system around him. Was Brad Johnson an elite QB? no. And I really don't think Tom Brady is. He is a GOOD QB and you can win games and super bowls with him, but I don't think hes the type that will thrive when he has a bad offensive team around him. An elite QB will thrive with a bad team around him.Wrong again guy. He was sacked the 5th most in the NFL in 2001. Still producing and helping his team win a Superbowl. Let me get this straight. So if a QB has a good O line he can win? No way really? Name the stellar receivers Brady has had up until last year? You're argument is dumb. Sorry.

[TrackStar]

He fucking held onto the ball too long in 2001, you don't know this because you werent a fan yet cause they hadn't won the superbowl yet.

[Ep41382]

Lil'Ze, I understand you're a Pats fan, and yes I realize Brady is a excellent QB. But all you keep saying in any of these threads about Brady is how he never had any WRs up until last yr. Ill agree with you that his WR's core wasn't exactly pro bowl caliber. But with given time in the pocket.... ANY WR in the NFL is going to get open enough to catch the damn ball. Even the best DB in the league can only cover a WR for so long.

Is Brady a good QB? YES
Did Brady's WR core lack potential up until last yr? YES
Does Brady play in one of the best systems in recent decades? YES
Does Brady have a solid Off. line? YES
Are we all sick of hearing the same arguments over and over again? YES

[TrackStar]

Am I right? YES

[Lil Ze']

Lil'Ze, I understand you're a Pats fan, and yes I realize Brady is a excellent QB. But all you keep saying in any of these threads about Brady is how he never had any WRs up until last yr. Ill agree with you that his WR's core wasn't exactly pro bowl caliber. But with given time in the pocket.... ANY WR in the NFL is going to get open enough to catch the damn ball. Even the best DB in the league can only cover a WR for so long.

Is Brady a good QB? YES
Did Brady's WR core lack potential up until last yr? YES
Does Brady play in one of the best systems in recent decades? YES
Does Brady have a solid Off. line? YES
Are we all sick of hearing the same arguments over and over again? YESHis lines for the first two Superbowls were not that great. He didn't have a good pass protecting line until 2004. And Brady has almost never held on to the ball too long. His WR core didn't lack potential. They just were average. 2nd string WR's at best. Up until last year he had 1, 1000 yard receiver in Troy Brown. It doesn't matter that I'm a fan of the team. Anyone who has watched the team from 2000-now would fully agree with what I'm saying. Brady did things that I don't think some of the elite QBs could have done. Lets take Wayne and Harrison away from Peyton and put Branch and Brown in there.

To Trackstar. I don't think so guy. I have been watching since before Ben Coates was a TE. Sorry to burst your bubble.

[Ep41382]

it does matter that you're a fan... b/c sometimes fans have tunnel vision....

[Lil Ze']

Ok and I understand that. But I'm providing facts here. Name a number one receiver he had before last year.
Deion Branch? No
Troy Brown? No
David Patten? No
David Givens? No

Name a Top 10 RB he's had?
Correy Dillon? While he had some good years I wouldn't call him top 20. He was just a bruiser and we got him at the end of his career.
Antowain Smith? Yeah, no. He's had two 1000 yard seasons and is no longer in football. Also he was absent during the playoffs.
Laurence Maroney? Not right now. If he could actually stay healthy maybe.

[TrackStar]

A good line makes above average recievers like those and an average runner like antowain smith look good. Plus a good QB system. Don't hold the ball too long and you won't get sacked like a bitch.

[TrackStar]

Tuck rule = bitch holding the ball too long...

[Lil Ze']

Sigh...

[moldyhands]

A good line makes above average recievers like those and an average runner like antowain smith look good. Plus a good QB system. Don't hold the ball too long and you won't get sacked like a bitch.
so you're basically saying a great QB can't have a good line. what would manning have done with the good O-line AND wayne and harrison. he would've won a few superbowls. what did brady do with a good O-line and no star receivers. he won a few superbowls.

your argument is stupid. brady is a winner. he makes great reads. passes to the right player. moves the ball. and, most importantly, he wins. three superbowls rings in four years.

you talk shit about his performance in the superbowl against the giants. what about where he pulled out the win against the giants in the last game of the regular season? that giants team came on at the right time, and, OVERALL, was the best team in the league. still is. passing game, O-line, D-line, linebackers, running game. and it was a competitive game too.

i'm not even a pats fan - but i'm also not blinded by my hatred of a great player.

[Ep41382]

i just find it amazing how Pats fans argue about the teams they once had. Brady had no one blah blah blah blah... guess what!!! YOU DONT HAVE TO HAVE SUPERSTARS AT EVERY POSITION TO WIN A SB!!!! These are professional athletes playing in the NFL for a reason. Ever heard the phase...its a TEAM game??? You always hear BRADY BRADY BRADY, but BRADY didnt win them the Superbowl people single handedly. Yes he was a MAJOR factor, but my god... give some damn credit to the surrounding cast. Brady deserves a hell of a lot of credit.. but not ALL of it.

[Lil Ze']

i just find it amazing how Pats fans argue about the teams they once had. Brady had no one blah blah blah blah... guess what!!! YOU DONT HAVE TO HAVE SUPERSTARS AT EVERY POSITION TO WIN A SB!!!! These are professional athletes playing in the NFL for a reason. Ever heard the phase...its a TEAM game??? You always hear BRADY BRADY BRADY, but BRADY didnt win them the Superbowl people single handedly. Yes he was a MAJOR factor, but my god... give some damn credit to the surrounding cast. Brady deserves a hell of a lot of credit.. but not ALL of it.
No you're right. You don't always need superstars. And I have stated many times that Brady did not do it alone. BUT
John Elway had Rod Smith, Shannon Sharpe, Ed McCaffery & Terrell Davis
Joe Montana had Jerry Rice & Roger Craig
Troy Aikman had Michael Irvin, Emmitt Smith & Moose
Terry Bradshaw had Lynn Swann & Franco Harris

Without Brady they wouldn't have won or even been in the Superbowl. The same can be said about Adam V and our defense most of the time.

[TrackStar]

so you're basically saying a great QB can't have a good line. what would manning have done with the good O-line AND wayne and harrison. he would've won a few superbowls. what did brady do with a good O-line and no star receivers. he won a few superbowls.

your argument is stupid. brady is a winner. he makes great reads. passes to the right player. moves the ball. and, most importantly, he wins. three superbowls rings in four years.

you talk shit about his performance in the superbowl against the giants. what about where he pulled out the win against the giants in the last game of the regular season? that giants team came on at the right time, and, OVERALL, was the best team in the league. still is. passing game, O-line, D-line, linebackers, running game. and it was a competitive game too.

i'm not even a pats fan - but i'm also not blinded by my hatred of a great player.


Ugh... you dumb. Stay out of the sports talk section.

[TrackStar]

Sigh...

you know that shits funny

[25psi]

so you're basically saying a great QB can't have a good line. what would manning have done with the good O-line AND wayne and harrison. he would've won a few superbowls. what did brady do with a good O-line and no star receivers. he won a few superbowls.

Brady has also had a much better defense behind him for most of his career.


It's extremely hard to say "X is a system QB, or X would be good without a good cast around them" in the NFL. But I do believe that good football starts in the trenches, particulary for an offense.

[TrackStar]

If theres ever been an argument for a QB being a system QB, then I have presented it.

[nipster]

No you're right. You don't always need superstars. And I have stated many times that Brady did not do it alone. BUT
John Elway had Rod Smith, Shannon Sharpe, Ed McCaffery & Terrell Davis
Joe Montana had Jerry Rice & Roger Craig
Troy Aikman had Michael Irvin, Emmitt Smith & Moose
Terry Bradshaw had Lynn Swann & Franco Harris


You missed one:

Vinny Testaverde had Mark Carrier and umm... Ron Hall