A perception on how people perceive things differently and stuff...

XYNaPSE · 11-01-2009, 04:04 PM

So I was just thinking about how people seem to perceive things in regards to politics and the state of the economy and world. I came up with my own perception.

lol It seems --to me-- some people (especially around here) have it all ass-backwards. Or somebody may know and put some good thought into a particular topic and then their fucked up biases ruin it all. Which led me to more thoughts and reading and pondering the reading and so on and I noticed something.

All this time this White House has not been saying everything is fine and dandy but in reality they've been saying that this has and will continue to be one of those times in our history where we struggle and define ourselves once again through the tests of time. They've been saying that these times are the roughest since the Great Depression. They've been saying how grim things are and how it's going to continue to be tough for a long time. They say all these things yet people still say things like this,
http://www.tampaforums.com/forums/fr...1/#post4031944

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuck98 RT10

The Obama administration can tell us all day long how wonderful times are but I won't believe it until I see it with my own two eyes.

Where does this guy come up with this crap? So what if they say the stimulus has created or saved a million jobs. Is that why Chuck is saying that? Does that automatically negate everything they said in their previous statements? Does that somehow mean that they are implying the economy is doing wonderful and how things are going great? No. It means that some jobs were created/saved. That's it. You're full of shit Chuck.

So I continued pondering and reading. I come to the conclusion, after years of research and debate, that there is no question whatsoever that the government has softened the blow of the recession through different types of stimulus, like unemployment checks, tax breaks and credits, buying up toxic assets, injections of billions into the market here and there. In other words giving and taking. Yes, it sucks that this happens but on the other hand it keeps us economically stable instead of losing everything. So does that mean things are great? No, it means things are gonna suck for awhile. It's like spreading out all the debt to make it easier to deal with. These are tools and strategies all super powers use. Name one rich nation that has not done a stimulus. They've all done it and are doing it. It's just a part of a long list of strategies to use when dealing with the various problems that they face. Everything has pros and cons.

/end rant

**Graves** · 11-01-2009, 04:09 PM

Just walk away you can't win this one.

XYNaPSE · 11-01-2009, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graves

Just walk away you can't win this one.

There is nothing to win. All perception. "There are many ways to do that."

XYNaPSE · 11-01-2009, 04:12 PM

and seriously? You read that in less than 5 minutes, pondered it, and all you could come up with was that?

dink921 · 11-01-2009, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XYNaPSE

There is nothing to win. All perception. "There are many ways to do that."

youll never convince a crazy they are crazy.

**Graves** · 11-01-2009, 04:19 PM

Perceptions are like assholes, we all have one.

**Graves** · 11-01-2009, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XYNaPSE

and seriously? You read that in less than 5 minutes, pondered it, and all you could come up with was that?

Yes because what beliefs and ideas lead you to your perception is not what will lead another to accept the same.

**jabtay** · 11-01-2009, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XYNaPSE

lol It seems --to me-- most people (especially around here) have it all ass-backwards. Or somebody may know and put some good thought into a particular topic and then their fucked up biases ruin it all.

You are one to speak. You post time after time about how good things are going. You need to step back and look at your own biased partisan mindset before you throw rocks in a glass house.

XYNaPSE · 11-01-2009, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graves

Yes because what beliefs and ideas lead you to your perception is not what will lead another to accept the same.

Where did I imply that? All I did was listen, think, and share. I don't expect everyone to have the same perception as me.

XYNaPSE · 11-01-2009, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jabtay

You are one to speak. You post time after time about how good things are going. You need to step back and look at your own biased partisan mindset before you throw rocks in a glass house.

No, I don't ever post time and time again about how good things are going. I always have said or implied that times are rough. You are confusing what I say because I debate against the thought that the End is near.

Another example of how a biased view distorts reality. The exact same example as the one I quoted from Chuck.

**jabtay** · 11-01-2009, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XYNaPSE

No, I don't ever post time and time again about how good things are going. I always have said that times are rough.

Another example of how a biased view distorts reality. The exact same example as the one I quoted from Chuck.

yeah ok.

**Graves** · 11-01-2009, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XYNaPSE

Where did I imply that? All I did was listen, think, and share. I don't expect everyone to have the same perception as me.

Yet someone with an apposing view is "Full of shit"........

XYNaPSE · 11-01-2009, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graves

Yet someone with an apposing view is "Full of shit"........

Chuck made a statement that was completely false. In other words, full of shit. Doesn't have anything to do with an opposing view.

dink921 · 11-01-2009, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XYNaPSE

Chuck made a statement that was completely false. In other words, full of shit. Doesn't have anything to do with an opposing view.

oh it doesnt matter that its false. they believe it.. so it must be true... you havent seen the COUNTLESS reports by the white house that say "THE ECONOMY IF PERFECT, EVERYTHING IS FLOWERS AND CANDY, I FIXED IT ALL!!" ?

**Graves** · 11-01-2009, 04:47 PM

You can only sugar coat a turd so long.

**Josh** · 11-01-2009, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XYNaPSE

Another example of how a biased view distorts reality.

oh the irony.

XYNaPSE · 11-01-2009, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josh

oh the irony.

I have never implied that I don't have a bias. This thread, in a way, kinda shows how I get my biased perceptions.

**Josh** · 11-01-2009, 06:00 PM

none of the things the government done has helped...it's not a matter of perception, it's a matter of economic principle. you obviously haven't researched anything.

what made this bust necessary? the intervention on part of the federal reserve and the federal government of 2001-2002. the government came in with their idiocy, printed a bunch of money, provided subsidies to subprime lenders on cohort with freddie and fannie, and provided the air necessary to inflate the real estate bubble. if the government had not provided that stimuli, there's no way home prices would've gotten out of control like they did, there would've never been all these worthless financial instruments, and there never would've been a housing bubble, we wouldn't be in a recession right now.

it's the unintended consequences of government intervention in a free market that distorts the market and causes the malinvestment that necessitates the bust - why do they interfere? because they think the only way they can can re-elected is if everything seems rosy.

if people had to finance home prices with their own savings, of which we had very little domestic savings at the time, home prices couldn't have been bid up in a speculative bubble - NO ONE COULD'VE AFFORDED THEM! Obviously the banks want to keep customers, so prices would've been kept in check - and historically, it's LENDERS that provided a check on home prices. but back in 2001-2002, something odd happened...there were false signals sent by our central bank by lowering interest rates. this coupled with the moral hazard of the greenspan put, too big to fail, the hazards at freddie and fannie, all contributed in a very very big way to the housing bubble....if you fail to realize that, you simply fail.

wall street was drunk, main street was drunk, the whole country was drunk.....but where'd the get the alcohol?

XYNaPSE · 11-01-2009, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josh

none of the things the government done has helped...it's not a matter of perception, it's a matter of economic principle. you obviously haven't researched anything.

what made this bust necessary? the intervention on part of the federal reserve and the federal government of 2001-2002. the government came in with their idiocy, printed a bunch of money, provided subsidies to subprime lenders on cohort with freddie and fannie, and provided the air necessary to inflate the real estate bubble. if the government had not provided that stimuli, there's no way home prices would've gotten out of control like they did, there would've never been all these worthless financial instruments, and there never would've been a housing bubble, we wouldn't be in a recession right now.

it's the unintended consequences of government intervention in a free market that distorts the market and causes the malinvestment that necessitates the bust - why do they interfere? because they think the only way they can can re-elected is if everything seems rosy.

if people had to finance home prices with their own savings, of which we had very little domestic savings at the time, home prices couldn't have been bid up in a speculative bubble - NO ONE COULD'VE AFFORDED THEM! Obviously the banks want to keep customers, so prices would've been kept in check - and historically, it's LENDERS that provided a check on home prices. but back in 2001-2002, something odd happened...there were false signals sent by our central bank by lowering interest rates. this coupled with the moral hazard of the greenspan put, too big to fail, the hazards at freddie and fannie, all contributed in a very very big way to the housing bubble....if you fail to realize that, you simply fail.

wall street was drunk, main street was drunk, the whole country was drunk.....but where'd the get the alcohol?

That's your perception. What do you think would have happened -by now- if the government did not do a bailout or buy up a lot of the toxic assets at all time low values? Imagine being in a parallel Universe where everything pre-bailout was the same. What do you think would have happened if all the governments in the world that did bailouts did not do bailouts to fill in the 30 something trillion dollar hole that was created in the global economy?

**Josh** · 11-01-2009, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XYNaPSE

That's your perception. What do you think would have happened -by now- if the government did not do a bailout or buy up a lot of the toxic assets at all time low values? Imagine being in a parallel Universe where everything pre-bailout was the same. What do you think would have happened if all the governments in the world that did bailouts did not do bailouts to fill in the 30 something trillion dollar hole that was created in the global economy?

it's not my perception, it's economic principle. you're proving me right thought you don't even know it. if the government hadn't stepped in, the decline would've been severe, that's what i've been saying, but i've also been saying the inevitable downturn, as a result of the intervention will be more severe than it would've been if the government hadn't interfered....and this is well documented throughout history. just look at the last 10 years...the government came in, eased the pain, then we had a larger downturn as a result. that's my tune this time...sure the government has eased the pain, but the consequences will be even worse BECAUSE of the intervention, much worse than if we had just taken the medicine like we needed to.

the fact that government temporarily postponed the pain by buying up toxic assets isn't a positive, it's merely made the inevitable collapse of those instruments worse. real estate isn't a gold mine, it's not going to go back to the bubble, so these instruments are fucking worthless, they should be liquidated. but what we've done is print a bunch of money to buy things no one would touch, and for good reason, THEY'RE WORTHLESS!

it's not perception, it's reality.

11-01-2009, 04:09 PM	#2 (permalink)
Graves Fuct You	Just walk away you can't win this one.

11-01-2009, 04:12 PM	#4 (permalink)
XYNaPSE Highly Enlightened	and seriously? You read that in less than 5 minutes, pondered it, and all you could come up with was that?

11-01-2009, 04:19 PM	#6 (permalink)
Graves Fuct You	Perceptions are like assholes, we all have one.

11-01-2009, 04:47 PM	#15 (permalink)
Graves Fuct You	You can only sugar coat a turd so long.

11-01-2009, 06:00 PM	#18 (permalink)
Josh When I read your post	none of the things the government done has helped...it's not a matter of perception, it's a matter of economic principle. you obviously haven't researched anything. what made this bust necessary? the intervention on part of the federal reserve and the federal government of 2001-2002. the government came in with their idiocy, printed a bunch of money, provided subsidies to subprime lenders on cohort with freddie and fannie, and provided the air necessary to inflate the real estate bubble. if the government had not provided that stimuli, there's no way home prices would've gotten out of control like they did, there would've never been all these worthless financial instruments, and there never would've been a housing bubble, we wouldn't be in a recession right now. it's the unintended consequences of government intervention in a free market that distorts the market and causes the malinvestment that necessitates the bust - why do they interfere? because they think the only way they can can re-elected is if everything seems rosy. if people had to finance home prices with their own savings, of which we had very little domestic savings at the time, home prices couldn't have been bid up in a speculative bubble - NO ONE COULD'VE AFFORDED THEM! Obviously the banks want to keep customers, so prices would've been kept in check - and historically, it's LENDERS that provided a check on home prices. but back in 2001-2002, something odd happened...there were false signals sent by our central bank by lowering interest rates. this coupled with the moral hazard of the greenspan put, too big to fail, the hazards at freddie and fannie, all contributed in a very very big way to the housing bubble....if you fail to realize that, you simply fail. wall street was drunk, main street was drunk, the whole country was drunk.....but where'd the get the alcohol?