A perception on how people perceive things differently and stuff...

[Graves]

Originally Posted by XYNaPSE

That's your perception. What do you think would have happened -by now- if the government did not do a bailout or buy up a lot of the toxic assets at all time low values? Imagine being in a parallel Universe where everything pre-bailout was the same. What do you think would have happened if all the governments in the world that did bailouts did not do bailouts to fill in the 30 something trillion dollar hole that was created in the global economy?

The rich people who pull all the strings might be a little broke too

[XYNaPSE]

Originally Posted by Josh

it's not my perception, it's economic principle. you're proving me right thought you don't even know it. if the government hadn't stepped in, the decline would've been severe, that's what i've been saying, but i've also been saying the inevitable downturn, as a result of the intervention will be more severe than it would've been if the government hadn't interfered....and this is well documented throughout history. just look at the last 10 years...the government came in, eased the pain, then we had a larger downturn as a result. that's my tune this time...sure the government has eased the pain, but the consequences will be even worse BECAUSE of the intervention, much worse than if we had just taken the medicine like we needed to.

it's not perception, it's reality.

It is a matter of perception. There are many ways to do that. They could have done nothing or they could have done something. Definitely a matter of perception. Also, what you're actually saying is that what they did helped; as in preventing things from becoming worse. In the future there are other strategies that will be used. If the government had not done anything the state of the economy would have been so much worse. There would have been no continued unemployment checks and a complete banking system failure with no FDIC to insure everyone. So everyone would have lost everything and it would have been the end of the U.S. by now.

[Josh]

Originally Posted by XYNaPSE

It is a matter of perception.

no. it's not.

it's a matter of facts surrounding economic principle and history of government intervention in the free market. it's well documented, not just over the last 10 years, but all throughout history.

my perception doesn't make these things true, the fact that these things have happened and will happen makes them true - we've learned nothing from history, and you're no exception - the government cure is always worse than the government disease. unlike most on this board, i'm not willing to turn to blind optimism for comfort....this economy is sick for a reason and it's getting sicker by the day, if you want to ignore it, you do it at your own risk.

and when we finally do get to have a real recession, when we experience the comedown from the poor decisions we've made, it won't be my perception, it will be my foresight in seeing this coming.

Crack a beer and watch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jj8rMwdQf6k

[dink921]

[XYNaPSE]

Josh completely ignored my 'government actually helped the economy' thought. If the banks were not bailed out the United States would be finished by now. He also stated or implied that this was not a real recession.

[Funk]

This is America, no matter "how bad" it might get, none of us have absolutely any reason to complain. So what if it's not done the exact way we see fit... are any of us so distraught with our life that we are willing to fight to change it? NO. FUCK YOU. All of you. AMERICA is not perfect, but damnit it's the best there is.

[TNathe]

Originally Posted by Funk

This is America, no matter "how bad" it might get, none of us have absolutely any reason to complain. So what if it's not done the exact way we see fit... are any of us so distraught with our life that we are willing to fight to change it? NO. FUCK YOU. All of you. AMERICA is not perfect, but damnit it's the best there is.

every single day America moves one step closer to doing just that. Look around you, Id have to say the amount of people PISSED at things going on in govt are quadruple what they were 10 years ago...and no this has NOTHING to do with the Presidents so dont start the Bush Obama bs.

[Rich]

Xyn, perception is not your problem, insanity is. Repeating the same thing over and over again expecting different results is nutbaggery. You can find examples all over history of liberalism, socialism and communism failing hard, yet you continue to embrace these principles. Josh said the same thing in more words above, just wanted to get my shot in.

[blacksheep-1]

Josh completely ignored my 'government actually helped the economy' thought. If the banks were not bailed out the United States would be finished by now.

No. no. what Josh is saying is that if the government hadn't gotten involved in the first place (going back as far as the 70s) in the subprime market game, the market would be naturally stabilized and the government wouldn't have to be involved now.
The azzwipes in Washington create the problem then talk about how they are going to "save us" by fixing the problem they themsleves created.
What government really needs to do is get out of the way of the American individual, and we'll fix this on our own, government generally is an impediment to progress.

[dink921]

Originally Posted by blacksheep-1

No. no. what Josh is saying is that if the government hadn't gotten involved in the first place (going back as far as the 70s) in the subprime market game, the market would be naturally stabilized and the government wouldn't have to be involved now.
The azzwipes in Washington create the problem then talk about how they are going to "save us" by fixing the problem they themsleves created.
What government really needs to do is get out of the way of the American individual, and we'll fix this on our own, government generally is an impediment to progress.

dont you work for one of the most socialist parts of the government... the fire dept / police dept? funny how you want the government out of peoples business and you think it causes only problems with everything it touches...when you yourself are a government employee... lolz... another lazy bitch who couldnt make it in society had to run to the government for employment lolz....

[TNathe]

Originally Posted by dink921

dont you work for one of the most socialist parts of the government... the fire dept / police dept? funny how you want the government out of peoples business and you think it causes only problems with everything it touches...when you yourself are a government employee... lolz... another lazy bitch who couldnt make it in society had to run to the government for employment lolz....

dude, i wish youd guys STOP COMPARING the police and fire dept BOTH of which are county and city and are funded by its citizens FOR ITS CITIZENS and the shit the Federal Govt is trying pull on your ass.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by dink921

dont you work for one of the most socialist parts of the government... the fire dept / police dept?

The government can't give more of the fire department or police department to one person than they can another, unlike most of our social welfare programs where some people contribute and receive nothing, and many contribute nothing and receive something.

Edit: Very typical of you though, when the rational argument comes to and end to look for something to divert attention and/or attack the opposition.

[dink921]

Originally Posted by TNathe

dude, i wish youd guys STOP COMPARING the police and fire dept BOTH of which are county and city and are funded by its citizens FOR ITS CITIZENS and the shit the Federal Govt is trying pull on your ass.

everything is funded by citizens u stupid fucking idiot... everything... government ran, is government ran... period.

and if you want to talk about what we wish for each other... i wish youd stop being so fucking gullible and believe every CT that is in existence.. whole heatedly... ur one to bash someone about what they believe, when you believe totally made up stories by the Rush limbaugh of the indies...alex jones.. hes out for ratings, nothing more.. and u buy into it hook, line and sinker...

[dink921]

Originally Posted by Rich

The government can't give more of the fire department or police department to one person than they can another, unlike most of our social welfare programs where some people contribute and receive nothing, and many contribute nothing and receive something.

really? try asking people that wait an hour for a cop to show up, simply because they live in the wrong area...

[TNathe]

'orly? Looks to me like this is going to be funded by BUSINESSES, by "savings", and by FINES for not having insurance. I hope to fucking hell you get reamed up the ass with this new healthcare buuuuullshit.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by dink921

really? try asking people that wait an hour for a cop to show up, simply because they live in the wrong area...

They choose to live in that area, when the federal government takes money from you, you have no choice but to pay it, nor can you move to a less oppressive state. Try again.

[dink921]

Originally Posted by Rich

Very typical of you though, when the rational argument comes to and end to look for something to divert attention and/or attack the opposition.

rich, youve stated personally... it dosnt matter what the argument is, false, true, made up or not... you wont believe anything coming from a dem... so why are you even talking to me? why do you even try to have a rational debate... you publicly admitted you are so closed minded you ARE NOT WILLING to look at the other side... you stated that... so since ur a self admitted know it all, theres no reason for me to discuss anything with you is there?

[dink921]

Originally Posted by TNathe

'orly? Looks to me like this is going to be funded by BUSINESSES, by "savings", and by FINES for not having insurance. I hope to fucking hell you get reamed up the ass with this new healthcare buuuuullshit.

all of which come from where..............CITIZENS............. YOU STUPID FUCKING IDIOT...

[dink921]

Originally Posted by Rich

They choose to live in that area, when the federal government takes money from you, you have no choice but to pay it, nor can you move to a less oppressive state. Try again.

lolz... rich... i feel sorry for you. carry on man... carry on.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by dink921

rich, youve stated personally... it dosnt matter what the argument is, false, true, made up or not... you wont believe anything coming from a dem... so why are you even talking to me? why do you even try to have a rational debate... you publicly admitted you are so closed minded you ARE NOT WILLING to look at the other side... you stated that... so since ur a self admitted know it all, theres no reason for me to discuss anything with you is there?

There you go again. I have stated that I have never heard a good liberal idea; that doesn't mean that I don't enjoy disproving every one of their bullshit claims, theories, isms and talking points in an effort to make them look stupid and hopefully change their ways one day. Its a losing battle, you retards are breeding fast.