A perception on how people perceive things differently and stuff...

[Decoy_TT]

Originally Posted by XYNaPSE

Just answer this question. Why did they lower interest rates?

Why should I answer your question when you have purposely ignored my multiple questions for you in this very thread?

Answer those, and you'll get an answer to yours.

[XYNaPSE]

Originally Posted by Decoy_TT

Why should I answer your question when you have purposely ignored my multiple questions for you in this very thread?

Answer those, and you'll get an answer to yours.

I've already answered them in previous posts. That's why I said we're going in circles. The only one I didn't answer was who was the one to remove the anti-predatory lending rules. I don't know. It was a regulatory committee.

[Decoy_TT]

Originally Posted by XYNaPSE

I've already answered them in previous posts. That's why I said we're going in circles. The only one I didn't answer was who was the one to remove the anti-predatory lending rules. I don't know. It was a regulatory committee.

You didn't answer all of them... Go back, I beieve you missed a few.

Also, and this wasn't a major point I was trying to make or anything, but I was curious how you rated the Feds protection of our monetary system the past 10 or so years. Considering the monetary system almost ruined America and all.

So the government had every ability to put them back into place?

And if not, the fed had the ability to alter rates to the point where the predatory lending ceased to be a good idea to the banks. They could have stopped all of this. But again, sure is great they ended the 2000 recession.

And we weren't going in circles. You stated you believed one thing, and then were shown hos it was incorrect.

I think that pretty much sums up the jist of this thread.

[XYNaPSE]

Originally Posted by Decoy_TT

You didn't answer all of them... Go back, I beieve you missed a few.

Also, and this wasn't a major point I was trying to make or anything, but I was curious how you rated the Feds protection of our monetary system the past 10 or so years. Considering the monetary system almost ruined America and all.

So the government had every ability to put them back into place?

And if not, the fed had the ability to alter rates to the point where the predatory lending ceased to be a good idea to the banks. They could have stopped all of this. But again, sure is great they ended the 2000 recession.

And we weren't going in circles. You stated you believed one thing, and then were shown hos it was incorrect.

I think that pretty much sums up the jist of this thread.

Yah. That's what you think. I'm tired of debating with you. Your thought contradict with eachother. You don't listen to what I say. Next.

[Decoy_TT]

Originally Posted by XYNaPSE

Yah. That's what you think. I'm tired of debating with you. Your thought contradict with eachother. You don't listen to what I say. Next.

I don't listen for good reason.

What you say has obvious bias and you conform what you know and twist it to back up what you believe, while flat out ignoring other points that disagree with your opinion... Instead of looking at it logically and making an independent opinion free from bias.

Think I am bias?

I can pull up MANY MANY MANY posts on this very forum where I strongly defended the Fed probably less then 2 years ago. I believe it was around the Ron Paul craze when I thought the Fed was almost exactly what you continually post. So you cannot even attempt to say I am bias, as my opinion has done a complete 180 based off of me looking at it more deeply, doing my research, and finally realizing who is at the most fault for the situation we are in.

[XYNaPSE]

Originally Posted by Decoy_TT

I don't listen for good reason.

What you say has obvious bias and you conform what you know and twist it to back up what you believe, while flat out ignoring other points that disagree with your opinion... Instead of looking at it logically and making an independent opinion free from bias.

Think I am bias?

I can pull up MANY MANY MANY posts on this very forum where I strongly defended the Fed probably less then 2 years ago. I believe it was around the Ron Paul craze when I thought the Fed was almost exactly what you continually post. So you cannot even attempt to say I am bias, as my opinion has done a complete 180 based off of me looking at it more deeply, doing my research, and finally realizing who is at the most fault for the situation we are in.

Yah you're definitely bias. There are many threads where I attack the Fed years ago. Your bias lies with your beliefs in Government. Although the Fed has made mistakes things would be much worse without it.

and I lol at you saying that you don't listen for good reason and are not biased in the same post.

[Decoy_TT]

Originally Posted by XYNaPSE

Yah you're definitely bias. There are many threads where I attack the Fed years ago. Your bias lies with your beliefs in Government. Although the Fed has made mistakes things would be much worse without it.

and I lol at you saying that you don't listen for good reason and are not biased in the same post.

I don't listen to you because what you say DOES NOT MAKE SENSE. That does not equate me to being bias you damned idiot. lol.

Some of your anger towards the banks are very well founded and I do agree with quite a bit of it. However for as much as you are right about what the banks did wrong, you COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY give a free pass to the Fed.

It flat out fucking blows my mind how you can do this. You are one bias assed person who, like I stated before, lets his agenda get in the way of logical thought.

Hell, I think this thread is the FIRST TIME you actually admitted the Fed made "mistakes". I'll call that a win for now, I think that's all you are going to admit to for now. But just a tip, nearly causing the downfall of America's monetary system isn't really the "Oops I made a mistake" you make it out to be. It's a tad worse then that. lol.

[XYNaPSE]

Originally Posted by Decoy_TT

I don't listen to you because what you say DOES NOT MAKE SENSE. That does not equate me to being bias you damned idiot. lol.

Some of your anger towards the banks are very well founded and I do agree with quite a bit of it. However for as much as you are right about what the banks did wrong, you COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY give a free pass to the Fed.

It flat out fucking blows my mind how you can do this. You are one bias assed person who, like I stated before, lets his agenda get in the way of logical thought.

Hell, I think this thread is the FIRST TIME you actually admitted the Fed made "mistakes". I'll call that a win for now, I think that's all you are going to admit to for now. But just a tip, nearly causing the downfall of America's monetary system isn't really the "Oops I made a mistake" you make it out to be. It's a tad worse then that. lol.

I'm not the idiot. You simply don't understand why the Fed is even there to begin with or why the Fed lowers and raises rates. You don't understand the concept. That's why what I say doesn't make sense to you.

[Decoy_TT]

Originally Posted by XYNaPSE

I'm not the idiot. You simply don't understand why the Fed is even there to begin with or why the Fed lowers and raises rates. You don't understand the concept. That's why what I say doesn't make sense to you.

You sound like me 2 years ago. lol.

I don't deny the Fed has a purpose. I never did. Not a single time.

However they FUCKED UP BIG and they are HIGHLY TO BLAME FOR THIS MESS.

It's not even fucking debateable to any logical person. Christs sake, man!

[XYNaPSE]

Originally Posted by Decoy_TT

You sound like me 2 years ago. lol.

I don't deny the Fed has a purpose. I never did. Not a single time.

However they FUCKED UP BIG and they are HIGHLY TO BLAME FOR THIS MESS.

It's not even fucking debateable to any logical person. Christs sake, man!

You're full of shit. During and after the recession of 2000 deflation was the concern (and still is.) Then the WTC collapsed. So they gradually lowered rates to unfreeze the banking system. Then they gradually raised them in 2004 up until 2007 when the recession began because of DEREGULATION. Now the recession is over and soon they'll begin raising the rates again.

[shoot]

God there is nothing funnier then watching a dude who survives off of the governments handouts defend it.

[Josh]

talk about someone who doesn't know why the fed is there. the fed, at its inception, was to provide a superior currency (bank notes) that were redeemable in specie. in other words, currency was a draft against actual money(gold) held in the bank.

see....before the fed was around, banks had their own bank notes. now if i took these bank notes i got in new york and tried to cash them in california, it created an issue. what if that bank had gone out of business by the time i got there? what if the bank in California didn't want to verify the bank existed or simply refused to cash my bank notes. travel was also much more difficult if you had to lug around bullion.

so...enter the federal reserve, which provided a set of bank notes redeemable nationwide for real money, and eventually worldwide. it's mandate was also to provide an elastic currency supply, shrink currency supply in times of contraction, and expand it in times of expansion.

the greenspan put, that is, lowering interest rates while an economy goes into recession, is not part of the federal reserves mandate, and is not part of the federal reserve act. historically, it is the fed's job to take the punchbowl away. their job is also to protect the integrity of the currency unit, not to print up a bunch of currency to try and prevent recessions. no matter how smart you think it is xynapse, it's not in their mandate. more than that, it's just a terrible idea.

yes....what we have now is currency (bank notes). look at a dollar bill 'Federal Reserve Note'....except this bank note is not redeemable for anything.

[perdition79]

Originally Posted by Josh

yes....what we have now is currency (bank notes). look at a dollar bill 'Federal Reserve Note'....except this bank note is not redeemable for anything.

A Federal Reserve Note is also not money, it's an offer of money. Legal Tender - an offer of money bound by law. Money doesn't change hands, offers of money do. Debts are discharged; they are never paid.

[XYNaPSE]

You're all lost. We're the most powerful, rich nation in the World with the biggest economy. Without the Fed, That would have never happened. So yah! End the Fed! WOOOHOOO!!! Let's destroy the United States banking system! WOOOHOOO! Great idea... Then we'll have a bunch of regional banks with different currencies. Inflation or deflation out the ass. More counterfeiting. Panics. Long lasting Depressions and more.

[jabtay]

Originally Posted by XYNaPSE

You're all lost. We're the most powerful, rich nation in the World with the biggest economy. Without the Fed, That would have never happened. So yah! End the Fed! WOOOHOOO!!! Let's destroy the United States banking system! WOOOHOOO! Great idea... Then we'll have a bunch of regional banks with different currencies. Inflation or deflation out the ass. More counterfeiting. Panics. Long lasting Depressions and more.

You know, you often call the majority lost or some other childish name. Yet you hardly get anyone helping you defend your stances. Maybe just maybe, you are the one that is lost.

[Josh]

Originally Posted by XYNaPSE

You're all lost. We're the most powerful, rich nation in the World with the biggest economy. Without the Fed, That would have never happened. So yah! End the Fed! WOOOHOOO!!! Let's destroy the United States banking system! WOOOHOOO! Great idea... Then we'll have a bunch of regional banks with different currencies. Inflation or deflation out the ass. More counterfeiting. Panics. Long lasting Depressions and more.

We developed into an industrial society, from an agrarian society without the federal reserve - pick up a history book for fuck's sake - the fed was established in 1913....long after we were amongst the most powerful economies in the world. so the fact that we need it to survive is pure nonsense - i'm not buying it; however, i'm not in favor of abolishing it completely, who knows, the devil we know may be better than the devil we don't know. the federal reserve does need to be stripped of some if its powers.....such as fixing overnight interest rates. this is something that needs to be determined by the market.

granted, in during the industrial revolution, we had a bank of the united states at the time, but they did not come even close to what the fed does today. listen to yourself for a minute....a market economy needs to have its viability determined by a board of 12 smug individuals who have no clue how to run a business? does that even make any sense? of course not. the only direction the fed has run this economy in is into the ground, and as far as i'm concerned they get an F for protecting the integrity of the monetary unit, which was part of their original mandate - not running the economy. you can't micromanage and pricefix in a market economy - it doesn't work.

We have always had inflationary booms, followed by deflationary busts; however, this always coincides with a rapid expansion of money supply and credit, but most notably paper money. quit talking about what you have no clue about.

[XYNaPSE]

Originally Posted by Josh

We developed into an industrial society, from an agrarian society without the federal reserve - pick up a history book for fuck's sake - the fed was established in 1913....long after we were amongst the most powerful economies in the world. so the fact that we need it to survive is pure nonsense - i'm not buying it; however, i'm not in favor of abolishing it completely, who knows, the devil we know may be better than the devil we don't know. the federal reserve does need to be stripped of some if its powers.....such as fixing overnight interest rates. this is something that needs to be determined by the market.

granted, in during the industrial revolution, we had a bank of the united states at the time, but they did not come even close to what the fed does today. listen to yourself for a minute....a market economy needs to have its viability determined by a board of 12 smug individuals who have no clue how to run a business? does that even make any sense? of course not. the only direction the fed has run this economy in is into the ground, and as far as i'm concerned they get an F for protecting the integrity of the monetary unit, which was part of their original mandate - not running the economy. you can't micromanage and pricefix in a market economy - it doesn't work.

We have always had inflationary booms, followed by deflationary busts; however, this always coincides with a rapid expansion of money supply and credit, but most notably paper money. quit talking about what you have no clue about.

You're the one who needs to pick up a history book. Why don't you move to Austria? Perhaps you should go over there and talk them into it. It is plainly obvious how much the federal reserve helped if you look at the before and after. We already battled all this out before. So instead of continuing. I'm just going to post this excellent article which I highly suggest reading the whole thing.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122360636585322023.html

Hamilton wanted to establish a central bank modeled on the Bank of England. The government would own 20% of the stock, have two seats on the board, and the right to inspect the books at any time. But, like the Bank of England then, it would otherwise be owned by its stockholders.

To Jefferson, who may not have understood the concept of central banking, Hamilton's idea was what today might be called "a giveaway to the rich." He fought it tooth and nail, but Hamilton won the battle and the Bank of the United States was established in 1792. It was a big success and its stockholders did very well. It also provided the country with a regular money supply with its own banknotes, and a coherent, disciplined banking system.

But as the Federalists lost power and the Jeffersonians became the dominant party, the bank's charter was not renewed in 1811. The near-disaster of the War of 1812 caused President James Madison to realize the virtues of a central bank and a second bank was established in 1816. But President Andrew Jackson, a Jeffersonian to his core, killed it and the country had no central bank for the next 73 years.

We paid a heavy price for the Jeffersonian aversion to central banking. Without a central bank there was no way to inject liquidity into the banking system to stem a panic. As a result, the panics of the 19th century were far worse here than in Europe and precipitated longer and deeper depressions. In 1907, J.P. Morgan, probably the most powerful private banker who ever lived, acted as the central bank to end the panic that year.

Even Jefferson's political heirs realized after 1907 that what was now the largest economy in the world could not do without a central bank. The Federal Reserve was created in 1913. But, again, they fought to make it weaker rather than stronger. Instead of one central bank, they created 12 separate banks located across the country and only weakly coordinated.

No small part of the reason that an ordinary recession that began in the spring of 1929 turned into the calamity of the Great Depression was the inability of the Federal Reserve to do its job. It was completely reorganized in 1934 and the U.S. finally had a central bank with the powers it needed to function. That is a principal reason there was no panic for nearly 60 years after 1929 and the crash of 1987 had no lasting effect on the American economy.

While the Constitution gives the federal government control of the money supply, it is silent on the control of banks, which create money. In the early days they created money both through making loans and by issuing banknotes and today do so by extending credit. Had Hamilton's Bank of the United States been allowed to survive, it might well have evolved the uniform regulatory regime a banking system needs to flourish.

Without it, banking regulation was left to the states. Some states provided firm regulation, others hardly any. Many states, influenced by Jeffersonian notions of the evils of powerful banks, made sure they remained small by forbidding branching. In banking, small means weak. There were about a thousand banks in the country by 1840, but that does not convey the whole story. Half the banks that opened between 1810 and 1820 had failed by 1825, as did half those founded in the 1830s by 1845.

[BigBadBuick]

Originally Posted by XYNaPSE

No, I don't ever post time and time again about how good things are going. I always have said or implied that times are rough. You are confusing what I say because I debate against the thought that the End is near.

Ok.
http://www.tampaforums.com/forums/fr...s-euro-346334/
http://www.tampaforums.com/forums/fr...t-woes-345892/
http://www.tampaforums.com/forums/fr...l-over-345362/
http://www.tampaforums.com/forums/fr...y-over-345193/
http://www.tampaforums.com/forums/fr...n-over-344338/
http://www.tampaforums.com/forums/fr...earing-343617/
http://www.tampaforums.com/forums/fr...ind-us-342719/
http://www.tampaforums.com/forums/fr...dollar-342537/
http://www.tampaforums.com/forums/fr...roving-342372/
http://www.tampaforums.com/forums/fr...-again-339909/
http://www.tampaforums.com/forums/fr...d-year-340483/
http://www.tampaforums.com/forums/fr...ket-up-339820/

You aren't debating anyone, you are posting thread after thread after thread after thread saying things are getting better, the stimulus is working, the recession is over, blah blah blah. It is my perception that you are really going out of your way to paint things in a positive light. I have nothing against optimism, but come on man, you're a freakin' stimulus cheerleader.

[XYNaPSE]

Originally Posted by BigBadBuick

Ok.
http://www.tampaforums.com/forums/fr...s-euro-346334/
http://www.tampaforums.com/forums/fr...t-woes-345892/
http://www.tampaforums.com/forums/fr...l-over-345362/
http://www.tampaforums.com/forums/fr...y-over-345193/
http://www.tampaforums.com/forums/fr...n-over-344338/
http://www.tampaforums.com/forums/fr...earing-343617/
http://www.tampaforums.com/forums/fr...ind-us-342719/
http://www.tampaforums.com/forums/fr...dollar-342537/
http://www.tampaforums.com/forums/fr...roving-342372/
http://www.tampaforums.com/forums/fr...-again-339909/
http://www.tampaforums.com/forums/fr...d-year-340483/
http://www.tampaforums.com/forums/fr...ket-up-339820/

You aren't debating anyone, you are posting thread after thread after thread after thread saying things are getting better, the stimulus is working, the recession is over, blah blah blah. It is my perception that you are really going out of your way to paint things in a positive light. I have nothing against optimism, but come on man, you're a freakin' stimulus cheerleader.

Does anything I say in there say the economy is doing great? No. Nope. Nothing. All I am doing is showing that things are not as bad as Joe, or Josh or any other Ct'er tinfoil asshole.

Dollar recover from 14 month low. Does that signify the economy is doing wonderful? NO YOU FUCKING IDIOTS!

Recessions end takes a toll on state budgets. Does that signify the economy is doing wonderful? NO YOU FUCKING IDIOTS!

Ben Bernanke says the economy's free fall is over. Does that signify that the economy is doing wonderful? NO YOU FUCKING IDIOTS!

Fed survey shows the U.S. recession is over. Does that signify the economy is doing wonderful? NO YOU FUCKING IDIOTS!

10 reasons why the recession is over. Does that signify the economy is doing wonderful? NO YOU FUCKING IDIOTS!

Leading index signals recession may be over. Does that signify the economy is doing wonderful? NO YOU FUCKING IDIOTS!

Treasuries climb after Russia says it has confidence in U.S. Dollar. Does that signify the economy is doing wonderful? NO YOU FUCKING IDIOTS!

Our economy is improving. Does that signify the economy is doing wonderful? NO YOU FUCKING IDIOTS!

Economists:Recession to end this year. Does that signify the economy is doing wonderful? NO YOU FUCKING IDIOTS!

I am sick and tired of you dumb fucking idiots distorting my views. None of that means the economy is doing great! unemplyment is still high. There are still banks collapsing. Business is slow. Yet, does that mean we are doomed? NO! Does that mean we are doing wonderful? NO! Get a fucking clue assholes. Our economy won't be doing great until 6 months from now or beyond.

BTW, Joe you owe me $40 because technically the recession is over and we are in a recovery.

[BigBadBuick]

Originally Posted by XYNaPSE

Does anything I say in there say the economy is doing great? No. Nope. Nothing. All I am doing is showing that things are not as bad as Joe, or Josh or any other Ct'er tinfoil asshole.

Dollar recover from 14 month low. Does that signify the economy is doing wonderful? NO YOU FUCKING IDIOTS!

Recessions end takes a toll on state budgets. Does that signify the economy is doing wonderful? NO YOU FUCKING IDIOTS!

Ben Bernanke says the economy's free fall is over. Does that signify that the economy is doing wonderful? NO YOU FUCKING IDIOTS!

Fed survey shows the U.S. recession is over. Does that signify the economy is doing wonderful? NO YOU FUCKING IDIOTS!

10 reasons why the recession is over. Does that signify the economy is doing wonderful? NO YOU FUCKING IDIOTS!

Leading index signals recession may be over. Does that signify the economy is doing wonderful? NO YOU FUCKING IDIOTS!

Treasuries climb after Russia says it has confidence in U.S. Dollar. Does that signify the economy is doing wonderful? NO YOU FUCKING IDIOTS!

Our economy is improving. Does that signify the economy is doing wonderful? NO YOU FUCKING IDIOTS!

Economists:Recession to end this year. Does that signify the economy is doing wonderful? NO YOU FUCKING IDIOTS!

I am sick and tired of you dumb fucking idiots distorting my views. None of that means the economy is doing great! unemplyment is still high. There are still banks collapsing. Business is slow. Yet, does that mean we are doomed? NO! Does that mean we are doing wonderful? NO! Get a fucking clue assholes. Our economy won't be doing great until 6 months from now or beyond.

BTW, Joe you owe me $40 because technically the recession is over and we are in a recovery.

Did I say anything in there that even suggested you said the economy was doing great? Re-read what I wrote, my words, not what you perceive them to be but what they actually are, and if you still perceive that I said that, hit yourself in the head with a brick until your perception thingy starts perceiving clearer.

By the way, I'm only one person YOU FUCKING IDIOTS!!!