I know why I SHOULD get a real estate agent, now I want to know why I SHOULDN'T.

[jlknauff]

A realtor can help you get a better price on either side of the table. If you're selling they can help you get the highest price for your home and if you're buying, they can help you get the lowest price.

[rainmkr]

as long as you get a good agent i say do it... but if you come across a guy named Dan Anci, shoot first.

[Occifer]

Originally Posted by TNathe

I think it may be against the licensing laws/ethics, ie. they can possibly loose their real estate license by doing such a thing.

In any other business, trying to undercut your competition or attract customers by offering things like rebates, cash incentives, and lower prices is considered good business practice. In real estate, giving half the commission to someone without an agent is an "ethics violation."

It's only an "ethics violation" because allowing Realtors to do so would encourage people NOT TO GET A REALTOR. If less people got Realtors, Realtors would make less money and the real estate industry would become less dependent on them.

Yes, there are ethics rules that Realtors go by to protect the interests of their clients. But there are also rules that exist solely to protect Realtors as a whole and to try to prevent anything that could be detrimental to the realty profession from happening.

I have nothing against Realtors. They do provide a necessary service. What I don't care much for is that the National Association of Realtors does everything within their power to make selling without a Realtor as difficult as possible and buying without a Realtor incentiveless.

[Scott]

Originally Posted by Occifer

In any other business, trying to undercut your competition or attract customers by offering things like rebates, cash incentives, and lower prices is considered good business practice. In real estate, giving half the commission to someone without an agent is an "ethics violation."

It's only an "ethics violation" because allowing Realtors to do so would encourage people NOT TO GET A REALTOR. If less people got Realtors, Realtors would make less money and the real estate industry would become less dependent on them.

Yes, there are ethics rules that Realtors go by to protect the interests of their clients. But there are also rules that exist solely to protect Realtors as a whole and to try to prevent anything that could be detrimental to the realty profession from happening.

I have nothing against Realtors. They do provide a necessary service. What I don't care much for is that the National Association of Realtors does everything within their power to make selling without a Realtor as difficult as possible and buying without a Realtor incentiveless.

You have said the above several times now. All of the above is true in any profession so I am not sure why you think you have stumbled across something here or are surprised by it.

So lets get this straight, people within a certain profession are looking out for their best interest and the longevity of their careers ? What a novel idea.

It is no different than attorneys making everything more litigious to further protect and grow their businesses, computer software writers making their systems more complex to keep themselves in business, so on and so on.

Capitalism at its finest to one extent.

[corey r.]

Originally Posted by Scott

Capitalism at its finest to one extent.

Funny, When I say that about negotiating with a relator on the commision, you burn me...

[XtremeVision]

Originally Posted by corey r.

Funny, When I say that about negotiating with a relator on the commision, you burn me...

OMG, you asked for some discount or credit on the HUD, the sky is falling in scotts world.

[Scott]

Originally Posted by corey r.

Funny, When I say that about negotiating with a relator on the commision, you burn me...

How does this pertian to making a ethics violation and potential illegal act ?

So out of all of that post I made this is all you could find, good, my point was made well.

[corey r.]

Whats wrong with getting a credit on HUD?

[Scott]

Originally Posted by XtremeVision

OMG, you asked for some discount or credit on the HUD, the sky is falling in scotts world.

I find this interesting coming from someone that is in the business and has numerous other businesses .

Sorry I do not find it o.k. for someone in my industry to try and cheapen the industry on the whole by discounting their services for no other reason than to get business in the first place or take it from someone else. If someone has to do this just to get business they should think about finding another profession.

Competition is great for business, doing shady tactics like this that are ethic violations in many cases and illegal in others are comparing apples to oranges. Again sorry if I follow the rules to a 't' and don't have to cut my costs and offer money back (which just sounds shady anyway) just to get business in the first place.

If you guys do not like my opinion then that is your choice, beating this dead horse that some of you are trying to beat is futile.

[Scott]

Originally Posted by corey r.

Whats wrong with getting a credit on HUD?

Read above. ^^^^

[corey r.]

I have read that you offer deals to TF members for using your services.

What deal is it that you offer to TF members for using your services, that they wouldnt get otherwise?

[Scott]

Originally Posted by corey r.

I have read that you offer deals to TF members for using your services.

What deal is it that you offer to TF members for using your services, that they wouldnt get otherwise?

Depends on the customer so since you are not one then the point is moot.

[corey r.]

You keep saying that offering discounts is an ethics violation, I figured you may want to clear up how what you do is any different?

You know, to all the potental customers that are reading this.

[Occifer]

Originally Posted by Scott

So lets get this straight, people within a certain profession are looking out for their best interest and the longevity of their careers ? What a novel idea.

It is no different than attorneys making everything more litigious to further protect and grow their businesses, computer software writers making their systems more complex to keep themselves in business, so on and so on.

Capitalism at its finest to one extent.

Bar associations don't set fees for lawyers. They don't tell lawyers that they cannot work on a contingency basis (except in some circumstances where it definitely would be a real ethical issue), they don't set hourly rates, and they don't prohibit such things as prepaid legal funds or retainers. The reason that society is as litigious as it is can be easily seen by the amount of lawyers out there. Every lawyer wants work, so they have to find a way to get work. However if one lawyer wants to charge less of a fee than other lawyers in order to land clients, he can do it unless the fee is set by statute (which is rare). There's nothing that any professional association of lawyers does to grow the legal field.

And there's no association of software writers at all that governs what they do. They have no "ethical" rules that tell them to make software as complex as possible, nor do they have rules that say how they can negotiate their compensation.

Real estate is completely and totally different. The NAR attempts to control the entire real estate market with their regulations. They put the fear of God into a Realtor who wants to compete with others on a price basis and attempts to make it as difficult as possible. They do not require or suggest that Realtors show their clients FSBO homes, even if a FSBO home suits their needs better and is cheaper than homes listed by other Realtors. I could go on, but instead I'll just ask for you to come up with another industry where the major industry association tries to control everything by setting a price for services that is the same nation wide and tries to prohibit its members from deviating from that fee schedule. Real estate is the only one.

If someone paid me $20 not to write them a traffic ticket, that would be unethical. I don't think anyone would argue that. If I'm getting bids for a new roof on my house and one roofer has an idea of what his competition will charge and comes in lower than the other roofer, that's not unethical. That's business. So how is it unethical for one Realtor to charge less than other Realtors? There's nothing immoral or unethical about it.

God forbid Realtors might have to compete on a price basis like every other industry out there...

[Occifer]

Originally Posted by Scott

Again sorry if I follow the rules to a 't' and don't have to cut my costs and offer money back (which just sounds shady anyway) just to get business in the first place.

There's nothing shady about it. You get what you pay for. If you're a good Realtor who has no problem getting a stream of clients to pay 6%, then great. Your services are worth the 6%. Just like getting Barry Cohen to be your defense attorney is going to cost more money than some guy who has been out of law school for a year. But if that new lawyer wants to set low rates to help him get business, that's HIS right--and that is the bottom line.

I think the issue with the real estate industry that scares the NAR about allowing cash back incentives and other competition on a price basis is that in all honesty, the majority of Realtors all do about the same thing. There are very good Realtors who stand above the rest, there are bad Realtors who haven't a clue as to what they're doing, and there are a lot of competent Realtors who are all going to provide an acceptable level of service to their client. The best are always going to charge the most, as in any other industry. The worst and least experienced should be allowed to charge less, as should anyone else who wants to compete with others in the industry.

Barry Cohen doesn't have to worry about losing clients because of cheaper competition. The only people who need to worry about losing clients because of cheaper competition are the ones who shouldn't be getting what they get in the first place. I think that pretty much sums up why lots of Realtors are so opposed to other Realtors lowering their rates.

[corey r.]

Originally Posted by Scott

computer software writers making their systems more complex to keep themselves in business, so on and so on.

As someone that makes a living writing software, I can tell you There is no organization that tells us to write complex code.

As a matter of fact, writing complex code for job security goes AGAINST ethics set by many organizations.


ACM is one example.

http://www.acm.org/serving/se/code.htm

[Chris]

What's even more important is finding a GOOD home inspector.... I've got a few issues which should have been caught. If you do go without an agent, at least get yourself a real estate attorney so that you ensure you have someone looking out for you in case you miss anything.

[XtremeVision]

Originally Posted by Scott

I find this interesting coming from someone that is in the business and has numerous other businesses .

Sorry I do not find it o.k. for someone in my industry to try and cheapen the industry on the whole by discounting their services for no other reason than to get business in the first place or take it from someone else. If someone has to do this just to get business they should think about finding another profession.

Competition is great for business, doing shady tactics like this that are ethic violations in many cases and illegal in others are comparing apples to oranges. Again sorry if I follow the rules to a 't' and don't have to cut my costs and offer money back (which just sounds shady anyway) just to get business in the first place.

If you guys do not like my opinion then that is your choice, beating this dead horse that some of you are trying to beat is futile.

Scott, Nobody said that I agree with companies such as HD and others.

What you are saying about a credit is wrong. Its 100% legal to offer a broker credit on the HUD for closing costs, etc. There is nothing wrong with this. Should it be done every day just to get business, Hell no.

I have never once given a customer cash after close, this is where you are getting mixed up on your laws. Paying somone after close cash or paying somone after close for a referal outside of the deal is illegal. Is it done, shit ya it is. Your own coldwell banker #1 huge team bohannon got huge fines for this. It happens all the time until people get caught.



Will I do it for friends or if somone approaches me to do it if they have already found a property? Sure as hell I will. Why wouldnt I?

I have done it a few times. The lender allows 3% or somtimes even 6% credits for closing costs and prepaids and its 100% legal.

I do not however advertise this just to get business. Can you and do people do it? Sure they do. Its fine if they do.

If somone is going to get a discounted service, it sucks for them, if they will get the same service thats even better.

If I list a house for somone AND I bring the buyer, damn right will I cut my commision to save them some money. I sure will get repeat business this way. Especially if I didnt really have to do all that much to earn the 5%. I am one of the first to admit that somtimes realtors are overpaid if they dont have to actully put time into finding property. But there are times where you spend days with clients and they dont buy shit. So thats the part that people forget.

You offer a free home warranty paid out of your commision to people that use your service, this is considered the same thing as somone that offers them back 2% for closing costs. Its not a big deal and not frowned upon.

Like others said, competition is what drives any business. Realtors are involved in popularity contests and its really who you know and how many people and referals you get. Thats how you stay afloat in this business.

For the most part everyone does the typical MLS, SIGN, Flyers, etc etc. Its really the correct pricing , pics, descriptions and sales skills that actully will sell a house. Not just some agent that doesnt do anything.

[XtremeVision]

Originally Posted by Chris

What's even more important is finding a GOOD home inspector.... I've got a few issues which should have been caught. If you do go without an agent, at least get yourself a real estate attorney so that you ensure you have someone looking out for you in case you miss anything.

A home inspector is worth every penny. Normally you should find one that is licensed as they do not have to be in the state of FL.

Chris, did you use an agent when you bought your house?

[corey r.]

Originally Posted by XtremeVision

You offer a free home warranty paid out of your commision to people that use your service, this is considered the same thing as somone that offers them back 2% for closing costs. Its not a big deal and not frowned upon.

Hmmm.... How is this any different than a credit on the HUD at closing? Both come out of commisons, no?